Ex-Intelligence Analyst's APOE4 Protocol (After 13 Years)

[0:02]Robin's father died of a heart attack at 37 years old. No one understood why. Today, I am sitting down with Robin Schwitzer, a Phoenix member who spent 30 years as a US intelligence analyst. Yes, that's the kind that briefs senators and looks at biological weapons programs. And she was an analyst before she pivoted into health coaching. The reason? Well, Robin found out she carries a POFA 13 years ago, way before most of us even knew what those four letters meant. Her doctor at the time, she had to teach him. In this conversation, she walks me through her brain fog story and how keto cleared it in a month, the fasting mimicking diet, and this is the part I keep thinking

[0:44]about, the exact methodology she uses to read a medical study and tell within 60 seconds whether the authors are cooking the books or not. For that, she uses her intelligence analyst skills that she learned a while ago. So, if you've ever wondered how to actually evaluate health research instead of just trusting whoever has the loudest podcast, stay until the end. That's the moment. Let's get into it.

[1:08]>> When I was 4 years old, my dad passed away of a sudden heart attack. And no one really understood why at 37 years old someone would die of a heart attack. Before I was an intelligence analyst for 30 years, so I was a Russia area expert. [music] Once I'd look at a medical study, I could tell immediately if there's bias. People cook the books, that's what we, you know, we say in intelligence. [music] So, I probably knew more than the neurologists and the doctors, and most people didn't know their status. I broke through the brain fog, and it wasn't like common. I wasn't having brain fog all the time, remember sometimes I would go [music] into work

[1:43]at 5:00 a.m. and I'd be a little foggy. I wouldn't do a great job giving a presentation. And other days I was really clear-minded. [music] So, I could really tell a difference. And when I started, maybe like a month after the ketogenic [music] diet, my brain fog just totally lifted. I had tons of energy. I had a homocysteine of I think it was about 13 or 14 when I first started seeing and I [music] started just taking multivitamins with methylated bees and now I'm at seven.

[2:10]Don't worry too much cuz the stress is going to make you more cognitive issues through the stress. You'll have other problems.

[2:23]Hello everyone. Today we have Robin Schweitzer with us. Robin is a Phoenix member and for those of you who don't know who you are, can you describe us what you are doing today, Robin in 2026? Sure. Hi everybody. As Kevin said, I'm a Phoenix member, but I've been looking into APOE4 for over 10 years when I found out that I had one APOE4 allele and one of the reasons I have now changed careers to become a health coach is because of that reason and I'm very interested in helping people with cognitive decline. So I'm a national board certified health and wellness coach and a functional melt medicine certified coach as well as a ReCODE certified coach, which is Dr. Bredesen's

[3:08]reversal of cognitive decline protocol. And you mentioned that you had a career pivot, right? What were you doing before? Oh, before I was an intelligence analyst for 30 years. So I was a Russia area expert and then I looked at a lot of other countries as well and looked at a lot of their weapons programs including biological and chemical weapons and that's one of the reasons that I really got into kind of researching health and wellness is through understanding how different toxins and chemicals can affect the central nervous system and the brain. I realized how much you know chemicals and even like you know like I said like toxins in the atmosphere such as mycotoxins can affect the brain. So

[3:50]it was kind of like a yeah, circle for me. Yeah, I I really like that. That that pivot from research intelligence to like health and using I guess the methodology that you learned there to apply it for research. I think that is extremely interesting. We'll cover that a little bit later. But when I did a little bit of research on you, I realized that your pivot into health actually started a long time before that. You take Can you talk a little bit more about about that part of your life with your dad and and what happened?

[4:20]Yes. So, when I was 4 years old, my dad passed away of a sudden heart attack. And no one really understood why at 37 years old someone would die of a heart attack. Even at that time, a lot of people didn't go for wellness visits. Um this is in the late 1960s. But for his age, you don't expect someone to have a massive heart attack. Regardless, he wasn't extremely overweight. He was like a little bit overweight. He smoked, but so did almost everybody else at that time. So, I never really understood and wondered maybe if he had some genetic predisposition and that's the reason why I took the 23andMe test right when it was initially offered, I think about

[4:59]2013 or 2014. That's when I found out that I was APOE4 and 3/4 and I have a feeling he may have been 4/4. Yeah. Okay. What was your first reaction when you first learned your APOE4 status? I was a little worried, but then I dealt I dove into the research. Like for example, 23andMe had their own communications group at the time and Julie G, who now runs apoe4.info and who's a member here in Phoenix, uh was in that group and that's why she started the APOE4 info cuz we kind of our small group in 23andMe moved over there. Um so, I've been pretty much like part of that community since she started it. And more of, you

[5:43]know, like a you know, like someone who read more than contributed, but I would contribute on, you know, on occasion. But there's there's a lot of smart people there, too, on APOE4, but it's different than this group. Yeah, how how long ago was that? It was uh more like what, 15 years ago, right?

[5:57]Yeah, I think it was. I think for It's probably 2013 or 14 is when I remember. Maybe a little bit earlier. I can't I can't remember exactly, but it was definitely before 2014. It could have been 2011 or 2012. That really is. >> How did that change this this entire landscape with APOE4 and everything?

[6:17]Because I I know my status for uh what, 1 year and a half. Um so I I only know what happened from that. But how was it like 10 years ago or 15 years ago? Because I'm I'm guessing the information available was very scarce. Right. Um what was it like back then?

[6:33]Yeah. >> Uh I went to a integrative medicine doctor at George Washington University at the time, and he didn't know much about it. In fact, I had to teach him more about it. And since he was afraid of show medicine, I also had learned about the Bredesen protocol, which was called MEND at the time, and so I introduced that to him, and now he's a provider. And he was one of the early providers, as well, of the ReCODE protocol. But um yeah, it was interesting cuz I probably knew more than the neurologists and the doctors, and most people didn't know their status.

[7:08]Yeah. So. I think I think it's still the case now. A lot of people don't know their status, and a lot of our members, they end up having to teach their own health care provider about APOE4 or give them the information. And that And that's why I think it's important that you have a list.

[7:20]>> Yeah, that you may have a list of providers who are educated on APOE4. That would be great. Yeah, start starting to build that list, by the way. For for listeners listening in, if you guys have providers that are aware of APOE4, that are trained about it, or are APOE4 carriers themselves, please reach out because we're trying to really like build that list um, be able to benefit like all the April E4 carriers out out here. Uh, but going back to a little bit of your story, so you talk, um, about Recode, which wasn't called Recode then and and went on the Bredesen protocol and so on. How did you start on that and how did you encounter it? I

[7:58]think it was on the 23andMe group, the April E4 group, and I saw that there was a new protocol called Mend, and I don't really remember exactly what it for, but they were using software to take kind of like blood tests and just some general information about you and throw it into the software and come out with a protocol. It was a basic protocol and they were looking for people who wanted to be in the study, and so I volunteered because and they were looking for April E4 people with April E4, so I volunteered. Um, and then they did a cognitive test and they said, "Well, you don't qualify because you have normal cognition."

[8:34]So, I said, "Okay, well." They said, "Well, since you volunteered, we're going to give you a free protocol and we'll give you a free coach for a month." So, that was really nice of them. That was I said way in the beginning. It was a company out of North Carolina and then that kind of turned into Recode, but it was very similar to what they have now for the pre-code testing.

[8:55]>> And yeah, so I got a protocol and I started following it and I didn't realize that I was actually pre-diabetic and I was getting a little bit of brain fog and I was in my late 40s and I thought it was hormonal. And then I realized it was probably caused by I had a 5.7 A1C and doctors didn't make a big deal out of it, but then when I started learning more about April E4 and about, you know, cog cognitive issues with, uh, higher blood sugar, I went on the ketogenic diet. I followed it pretty carefully for 6 months and followed the protocol for 6 months, which also included more exercise, some supplements that they

[9:31]recommended, and I broke through the brain fog and it wasn't like common. I wasn't having brain fog all the time, but I remember sometimes I would go into work at 5:00 a.m. and I'd be a little foggy. I wouldn't do a great job giving a presentation. And other days I was really clear minded. So, I could really tell a difference and when I started maybe like a month after the ketogenic diet, my brain fog just totally lifted. I had tons of energy.

[9:57]Yeah, so I could really feel the difference and I think just getting my A1C down to a normal level. And I think I got it down to about 5.4 made an like a large difference. It was like it felt just like I was like breaking through the through the fog.

[10:13]And I felt really sharp and energetic. So, ever since then I've been I'd say probably metabolically flexible. So, I would be in ketosis some days and some days I'd cheat, but I know I need to do more days being in ketosis than not. But I eat a healthy diet. Yeah, I'm not eating the bacon, the butter and and Dr. Bredesen's protocol calls and they call it keto flex, which is you fast and then you eat you know, healthy diet with fruits and vegeta- you know, some fruits, vegetables and you know, healthy protein. And I feel better that way.

[10:46]>> Did you measure your ketone levels in your blood or did you do it like more or less based on your feeling? I did at the beginning. Yeah. And I used to prick my finger. First I did glucose and then I did ketones. After a while I had the breath meter and I realized if I fasted for I think it was like 3 days like in- did intermittent fasting, but only ate like a very low amount of calories. Like I did the fasting mimicking diet.

[11:12]When I did the fasting mimicking diet after the second day to the sixth day, it was just on its highest the whole time of the breath the breath Yeah, tester. So, and I felt it. I can feel when I'm in ketosis. Tell us Tell us more about about that the fasting mimic diet. So, that's from Dr. Valter Longo, who studied the blue the blue zones and he's a longevity expert. I think he's with Is he with University of California, San Francisco, I think now. Well, I think so.

[11:39]>> Yeah, anyway, so he's written a book also on the longevity diet, but he has something called ProLon, which is a 5-day kit that you can get. It's like a medical food that breaks everything up to the right macronutrients and he also has, you know, vitamins and omega-3, you know, with it and it's like soup and bars and it's exactly makes up what you need for your body to think it's fasting, but it's not. So, it's really no protein, it's a little bit of carbs, a lot of fats and I think it's like 1,000 calories the first day and it may be like 650 the next three or four days and yeah, by about day three, you're I mean, I wasn't

[12:21]hungry. I was in ketosis, but I did it myself. I didn't use his kit the first time. I did it another time with his kit. I actually prefer to do it myself. I use the same macronutrients and the same calories and just, you know, came up with the my own food for it, but yeah, but if you do that, it's supposed to be really good for for your brain, for your body. It's just like you're fasting and so, you get all the benefits of fasting without being totally in a fasted state. And they're using it now with standard of care, I know, for some um cancer protocols.

[12:55]So, along with standard of care, their research has shown that it improved um the efficacy of uh the standard of care. Wow, okay. It's interesting because yeah, I haven't really uh heard about that one. The The main benefit is the to to not feel hunger or do you have like additional benefits on top of like the benefits of fasting um like to use that versus normal fasting? It's pretty much like normal fasting except for you're not as hungry and you don't feel as tired because you're getting at least a little bit of nutrition.

[13:27]Yeah. >> So, I think that's a benefit and a lot of people won't do 5 days of fasting. So, if you're a say a cancer patient, it's a lot easier for your doctor to say, "Hey, here's this package. You know, here's what you eat for 5 days." then don't eat anything and a lot of doctors won't you know, won't allow their patients to go without any food for 5 days, especially if they're, you know, sarcopenia or they have other, you know, like they're underweight or they have other issues. So, it's just another a way and they've been able to do the they said some trials with this. I can send you the studies. Mhm. Yeah, that'll be

[13:59]interesting. But, yeah, >> go into that after you finish up. >> the ProLon kit. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm definitely interested in looking at that. I I do like a 3-day this fast approximately once every 2 months, but it's true that it it destroys like any performance in the gym, any cardio performance. I can't do anything.

[14:20]And even even though I get like very uh sharp, then probably because of ketosis. Um but, yeah, I say it's a very interesting topic. >> or fifth day, I'm kind of tired because I haven't had any protein. But, they they recommend this like quarterly for healthy people and like every month for sick people.

[14:40]Yeah. Okay. If we go back to like ketosis because it seems like to be really working for you. I should like to we have more or less the same experience because my A1C was also at 5.7 at one point in time. You don't even know because I didn't even test for it, but I was actually pretty healthy and and young. And then brought it back to 5.4 or 5.3 or something and felt a big difference. So, it I think like that that step is like quite easy for everyone who is listening like as you mentioned for me, it took me like 2 months or something of not even that strict ketosis like sometimes like being

[15:11]in and out, but being like metabolically flexible. Um do you have any tips for people who want to try ketosis that are a bit intimidated by it? >> Yeah, so what I usually do with my clients is I say first, "Okay, let's like explain it to them and why it's important and why it's helpful." And I said like, "I was able to I wasn't even really trying to lose weight cuz I wasn't you know, like classified as overweight, but I was kind of the top of my, you know, like like limit, but I dropped like 10, 12 lbs without even trying, honestly.

[15:40]So, that's one thing is if you're trying to lose weight, you're really not hungry and you have more energy and it's it's it's hard to imagine. It's kind of like your own GLP-1, you know, kind of to me it just, you know, it makes you feel like probably like those people feel who are on that cuz you're just not really hungry. But, um so, what I usually recommend is first cut out sugar. So, maybe for a week or two, just go without desserts. And maybe you can increase like or have a little a little bit of very dark chocolate like 90, 92%.

[16:07]You know, maybe try a little bit of that with some fruit. So, kind of give them something fun to eat. But, and then after that we start reducing carbs. So, maybe for a few weeks you'll say, "Okay, now no potatoes or rice." But, you're not going to say don't eat sweet potatoes. And then after that, once they're, you know, feeling better really because they're not like their blood sugar's not, you know, like all over the place. They tend to have it easier going into keto- ketosis.

[16:31]And usually I also work with exogenous ketones. I then ask the doctor first if that's okay. And that also kind of keeps someone's hunger in check. So, I use something called Keto Start, but there's a lot of different ones you can use. And then you usually feel sharper. You kind of feel like it's what it's like in ketosis. And if you're not hungry, you'll like, "Oh, that's a good feeling.

[16:51]Maybe I'll want to you know, want to get there myself." So, I kind of take it slow with people. Some people want to just dive right in and that's fine, too. But, you may get that keto flu. So, the keto supplements are good to prevent that. If you comment say because you mentioned that you are not hungry because the first time I tried going into ketosis, I was constantly hungry. Even though I was hitting at least 2,000 kcal in terms of calorie intake. But, I went into the taco, or I like cut all the all those of sugar carbs, processed carbs, like everything very fast and but I was constantly hungry. You believe that the the

[17:27]difference is what exogenous ketones? You good? I don't think so. Maybe you weren't you weren't totally in ketosis and you were measuring it? I wasn't measuring it. Uh, I was getting into like one millimolar something. It was it was like very tough to get into ketosis like initially. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe you had to go a little higher. Like I it's just maybe and everybody's different and you're a man, you probably need more calorie. I mean it could just be that I'm eating enough calories with the right ratio of fat. Maybe you need to eat more fats.

[17:55]I'd probably tell you to eat more fat and protein. Yeah, I mean which are the only two things we can I'm hungry. Just eat more Yeah, eat more calories, but everyone's different. So you I work mostly with women, sometimes with men and I think it's like the men also kind of lose a little bit of their hunger, but I have to be careful because some of the women are older and they're very thin.

[18:17]And so uh, I know Dr. Bredesen has, you know, kind of like a protocol for thin people, which is again like adding to maybe protein drinks, like low-carb protein drinks, a little bit more protein, maybe more MCT oil or olive oil. So just add the fats and maybe not too many fats, but um, you know, depending if you're APOE4 and what kind of fats you're going to eat. But um, yeah, usually that helps. And they they said that the ketone supplements can help, too. Yeah, I'm talking about fats. Uh, just to clarify the APOE4 carriers that are listening, the the keto diet that we are talking about is the non-fun keto diet. So no bacon, no but

[18:58]no Yeah, exactly. No no saturated fats because that is like extremely bad for us cuz as a reminder like APOE4 like uh, codes for the protein APOE4 and that protein uh has trouble like shuffling around saturated fats so which creates a lot of issues for us, like cardiac issues and cooking chili foods, right? So, again, what we mean more like the Mediterranean keto uh diet, rather than the Soolong keto with a lot of fat food. Yeah, we just call it you know, yeah, keto flex, and they have one version, you know, for apoE4 and one for non but and apoE2 and people with cardiovascular disease, cuz they don't want they shouldn't have this all those

[19:36]saturated fats, either. Yeah. So, for for those of you who have not tried it, like I think that it's a really like worth it to try. It's not that hard if you can cook your food at home. The only issue I think of uh being constantly in ketosis is as soon as you try to eat out, it's a nightmare. It's like very very difficult. Like I'm I'm here in Asia, for example, you have like sugar in soy sauce everywhere. It's It's very very very difficult. Uh so, cooking at home is the only way of of being able to maintain it. I think if you are living in the US, you have tons of like keto

[20:07]restaurants are starting to pop. In Bali, we have that as well. Like uh the the whole like house movement is is starting there, so it's like easier. But, other than that, yeah, try try to not uh eat out because that will kick you out of of ketosis. If you are the chief >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, I then uh then but it's a very sad to eat like sashimi without soy sauce. But, that's why that's it's really difficult. Yeah.

[20:29]That's tough. At least uh some some salt would be helpful. Um you mentioned a little bit about since we are talking about like uh being ketosis, about the the keto flu. Can you um explain what it is and how can people prevent it? I'm not an expert on this, but um just from my experience, so they say it's like being on low carb health.

[20:50]Mhm. You you're not getting carbohydrates, but you're also not getting ketones, so you're kind of not getting any energy, and you feel really tired. That's just a you know, like a kind of layman's way to say it. And that's why I think the ketone salts are a nice or the the esters are a nice way to kind of bridge that because you're getting some energy still. And that's why also I have people kind of reduce slowly so you're not all of a sudden just, you know, no carbs and, you know, going hardcore. So you kind of do it slower and then I think it's easier and you don't you don't get the keto flu. Yeah.

[21:24]Yeah, so the the same because I had that. I went to a keto hardcore. Usually so it was not only uh lack of energy, it was nausea, it was headaches. And that lasted for at least I think the the first like two or three days. Oh, that's terrible. It was a Yeah, it was and it comes and goes.

[21:42]>> carb eater. Mhm. Sorry. You must have been a big carb eater. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And because yeah, I love like pizza, pasta, like the rice and everything. Everything that is bad I I I love it. So You know, I love this too. And I went to Italy last year and I allowed myself to have one meal of, you know, like whatever I wanted and as long as I didn't overeat, I could have the bread in Italy. I had a little pasta.

[22:05]You know, it's not like I I wasn't really I couldn't even eat dessert once in a while cuz I was metabolically flexible. I knew when I felt good and when I didn't feel good and we would walk so much so I'd walk like five to eight miles a day.

[22:17]Mhm. So just walk as soon as you finish your meal. So it's not like you can never eat anything that's yummy. It's just you know, for me if you're 90% and it depends if you really have cognitive issues then you got to be more careful. But if it's someone who's healthy and your A1C is fine, your fasting insulin is fine, your glucose is fine, then having a little bit of carbs here and there is you know, get up, walk, do some exercise before and after and you'll be fine. Yeah, a few words I can get here.

[22:45]I think doing a diet or protocol that is too hardcore and not having any, you know, moments of pleasure that's probably the only the the worst way to do that because then you won't be able to stick to it and it's better to be 90% on it and be consistent across the years than going like fully hardcore and then giving up like 3 months after.

[23:06]Uh that's like super important. The second part about um being like keto flexible uh is basically having your body able to produce ketones relatively fast, which you don't have uh that type of ability at the beginning because your body is not used to producing ketones at all if you've been eating like carbs your entire life. And um that's why the first time you do it, you typically have a lot of issues. Don't have ketones produced what you mentioned right there in the keto hell because you don't have any energy. Don't have glucose, don't have glycogen anymore, don't have ketones either. And then you're kind of like floating in between because your body is kind of panicking like, "Oh, wow, what's

[23:42]happening?" And the your liver is not ready to produce those ketones. So, what helps to get out of that keto flu like that keto hell is what you mentioned, exogenous ketones, MCT oil helps a lot as well. Uh but also like uh think about even like having enough minerals uh like magnesium and so on, potassium because like you're urinating it out. Yeah.

[24:03]>> why I like KetoStart, and I have no association with any company in the world, but I really like them cuz it was also developed by scientists at the University of South Florida, like ketone experts. So, they they're doing it for, you know, and particularly for cognition, but it also gives you the electrolytes so it cuz it has calcium, sodium, magnesium, potassium. Yeah. And and for those issues, you don't necessarily need to go uh that way. You can just go to your local pharmacy and buy like hydration packs. Uh those are typically the the same electrolytes, uh basically the quantities. Probably not the same, but yeah, just remember that like eat a little bit more salty as

[24:35]well. Um because that that will help a lot. It's not Those are the lessons I on my way of of getting into ketosis. >> Let's let's move on to your intelligence career because I believe that is like fascinating, especially since you managed to transfer that skill of looking for information uh in that, you know, job out, and now you're able to do that in your health uh coaching career and uh what you're doing for for your patients. So, tell us a little bit more about that. First, I heard at the beginning of the call you mentioned that you had a bit of brain fog at 5:00 a.m. I mean, I I just like that's extremely early, so totally

[25:09]understandable. But, uh yeah, tell us more about what what type of work you were doing. What was your day-to-day? Because I I I know I'm fascinated about about that. I mean, you know, I watch too many like spy movies or something. Yeah, those are the I'm not exactly Yeah, we were more of analysts. So, what you do is you get every type of information in the world as much as you can, research as much as you can, you find out what the unknowns are, so what your holes are. And then you go out and try to find that information. So, for It's kind of like if a professor is writing a paper and they do all the research and they're

[25:46]looking at the government archives and they're looking at, you know, now internet, looking at books, you're looking at journals, you're maybe interviewing people and all the experts. Well, in this case, we have all that information to try to solve what we call like an intelligence problem. But then you also have other resources. Like now even if you're doing some research, you can use Google Earth. You know, back in 20, 30 years ago, you couldn't do that.

[26:09]But of course, government has their own satellites, they have their own signals intelligence, they have their own you know, human source networks. So, we just get a lot more information to be able to fill those gaps. And as an analyst, you're now you're writing papers for policy makers and also, you know, sometimes for other people in the community that might need it. And then you're also giving presentations to anyone from members of Congress to I mean, some people brief the president in the president's daily brief. I used to I briefed one time the president's foreign intelligence advisory board.

[26:42]>> Very good. Yeah, some of the secretaries of defense, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you know, senators, congressmen, but a lot a lot of analysts will sometimes just brief working groups or conferences or their commander or their boss. It just depends on what level you're at and what the topic is and you know, the top and how much interest there is in in your topic. So, it's really it's fascinating and I also was a methodologist. So, I developed methodologies for the area of expertise that I was working and so I kind of developed their training program and how to do the analysis because there was there was no book. So, I had

[27:17]to kind of create the book. So, that was that was a lot of fun. So, I kind of do that now with functional medicine and with my clients is kind of okay, what's the problem here for this person? Okay, what resources can we use? Can we test the or come up with a hypothesis, test the hypothesis or you know, maybe it's a treatment. Let's test the hypothesis this is treatment might work because the doctor hasn't used it before, but it might be in clinical trials now or you know, it's or even like Dr. Bredesen's protocol. I mean, that was a that was a hypothesis really based on a lot of evidence that he had and then he went to

[27:49]the clinical trials. So, now he's third cohort and I think it's the largest clinical trial that and they just published their results which are good. I think they're you know, they're very um promising. So, and that was a really really hard study to do. So, it it's kind of like that and then I question my assumptions.

[28:07]So, you know, say I you know, I think oh, this patient that I'm working with you know, their physician you know, and the doctor maybe doesn't have time to do research. Maybe I find out oh, they have this one bizarre symptom. Well, let me see what that could potentially be and then you might have what we'll call it analysis competing hypotheses. There's three hypotheses. It could be this, could be this, could be this. Let's look at all the evidence and then try to prove and disprove and then see how valid it is and see how credible you know, credibility and then how important that might be and then you kind of come up with a you know, like a solution or you

[28:42]know, is it is this treatment going to you know, be valuable or is this the answer? Then usually you're say, it's almost certainly the answer or probably is. We have like levels of certainty and probability. So you kind of come up with that, too. So then I can tell, you know, the doctor, oh, this is probably going to work for these reasons, but it might not because of these reasons. So it's yeah, it's just kind of a more comprehensive way of you know, when you show it to the physician and you're just a health coach, you know, they take it a little more seriously and then I have all my sources there. So that's kind of

[29:10]what I do with all my clients, especially if they have something that's unique. And almost every person has something unique. So you're not just focusing on you know, even Dr. Bredesen's, you know, areas. Like you he might I wouldn't say he's missing something, but some people have rare diseases or rare disorders that might be, you know, contributing to their cognitive decline. So even if you're doing the Bredesen protocol, you might miss it.

[29:32]Yeah, interesting. So if you if you go back to the mission of the longevity, right? So for for people who want to learn how to conduct research, and I realize it's actually very similar to the type of research I was doing in strategy consulting. So you are first hypothesis driven, you have a few hypotheses that you want to prove or disprove, and that is kind of the guide, overall guide on how you do the research. Then when you do the research, you have things that are proving that hypothesis, and probably like other information that is disproving it, and you're kind of putting that certainty level between the two and getting an overall picture of having

[30:07]yeah, basically the two conflicting opinion, and trying to see which one has the most relevance or the most like weight, and then make a decision. Yes. Five possibilities, perhaps. Yeah. I think especially in health care, right? When when you look at studies, you realize that you can find studies that are proving something and studies that are disproving something, the exact same thing. Like everywhere. So it's very difficult to have that weighing of which hypothesis is right or not, is it proven or not. So that's why like having a little bit of flare here is probably like the difficult part of understanding like which studies are like robust than our competitors. But very very interesting methodology. If we because

[30:46]you you started talking about that about how you help your patients as a coach, can you walk us through exactly how it is to be like a patient of of Robin? Like let's say from the from the onboarding to what you do with them, how you help them. Sure. So, right now I pretty much take clients who work with functional medicine doctors who are recode certified. I have a few that aren't, but generally I do that.

[31:14]And that way I'm not out of my scope of practice, and I don't feel like I'm going to make any mistakes. You know, if there's a mistake, the doctor's making it, and at least I know that they went to medical school, and you know, they have a lot more knowledge than me. So, I'm I'm not telling someone what to do. But generally I'll sit in with a patient or client while they're at the doctor's visit, which the doctors that I work with usually have 90-minutes very comprehensive visits, and that's usually after they've done all their blood tests, maybe they might have a mycotoxin test cuz we're in Florida, and there's a lot of mycotoxin issues here.

[31:48]They may have a lot of other types of testing. So, I'll sit with them with the doctor, they'll give them an exam, and then we'll just sit down and go through all of their results, and talk about what we could do for each one of those factors. So, it might be and again, like this is kind of like Dr. Bredesen's protocol, but so they're using that framework, but it sometimes it's a little bit different, you know, more a little bit more personalized than the generic protocol that you'll get. I mean, it's not generic cuz it's based on your you know, blood biomarkers, but this is just a little bit more specific in these cases because you're with the

[32:20]doctor. But anyway, so, you know, it might be, "Okay, we're going to go on a diet." Okay, Robin, will you help them implement this specific diet? This person might be like I said, thin, but they they still have high blood sugar, and that happens sometimes. And perhaps they need to build muscle, or perhaps they have a problem with their shoulder, so I have to make kind of personalized exercise plans for them.

[32:42]And the doctor doesn't really need they just will say, "Hey, this person needs to do, you know, X amount of exercise. Robin, you figure out what they need to do. Here's, you know, their their issues that they have." And then I'll help them with the diet. So, the doctor will say, "Oh, they need to be on a keto diet, and they need to get their ketone levels up to, you know, at least 1 or 1.5 at least once a day." That's what Dr. Bredesen says. And they're also underweight, so you have to make sure they have a, you know, the right amount of calories. So, I'll figure out, you know, there's some calculators where you can put in

[33:12]someone's weight, do they want to gain or lose weight, and then what kind of diet they want to have the macronutrients. So, I'll use that to get the right amount of calories, the right amount of macronutrients for that specific person with the right amount of exercise, and then the doctor will tell them what supplements to take based on, you know, all their biomarkers.

[33:31]And so, I'll help them with their supplements. Sometimes I'll go to their house if necessary, help their caretaker, cuz most of these people have cognitive decline, help their caretaker, you know, figure out how to give them medications and the supplements, cuz they may get medicine, they're going to have supplements, and sometimes, for example, if they have a mycotoxin protocol, it has to be taken away from their other supplements, so I'll help them kind of come up with a plan and a daily like what to take and when, so it's not so confusing and they can put it on the refrigerator.

[34:01]So, I'll help them with all those types of things. So, it's just And I'm also accountability, and I'm also available more often than their doctor is, and I can take emails or texts if they have a quick question. Maybe they have devices they're using like the photobiomodulation helmet, and they might have a problem with it, so they know they'll get a quick answer from me.

[34:22]So, I think it's it's really nice to have a health coach who I kind of call myself like a health coach plus, cuz I do a a little bit I I say more. I mean, the the ReCODE coaches do a lot, but in my case, I'll do the research and maybe all of them don't do that or don't have the time or maybe they all can't go to someone's house and they're only virtual. I primarily work with two doctors' practices. So, one of them is close to my house, so I can usually go to their visits and maybe go to that person's house. The other doctor is a little bit further away, so I'll just

[34:50]attend, you know, the virtual calls. So, that's >> Yeah. what it is and then I just follow up and I'll also give MoCA tests because I'm certified to give that. So, that's the Montreal Cognitive Assessment and then I'll be able to tell the doctor That's the thing I really like doing because when even when the doctor does it or their staff does it, they don't really know the person very well and I know the person well. I know if they're getting nervous. I can tell if they're not understanding my questions and I also want to know what parts of the test they're doing well on and what they're not. I had one client who we found out couldn't see very well.

[35:23]So, I had to blow up the test, you know, and print it out really large and then she did well because when she had the normal size one, she wasn't doing well or maybe someone else has a hearing problem, so I'll talk louder and speak slower. So, some people might get a low score on their cognitive test just because of all those reasons and they really do have better cognition. So, I can tell just talking to them, you know, like >> Yeah.

[35:46]Yeah, what their issue is. Like for one person, you know, they have animals. I said, "Well, this one lives in the jungle." And, you know, I'll give them hints and they'll say, "Oh, it's a camel." Mhm. So, cuz they can't >> Okay. Okay, interesting. Now, I I I think what I what I like a lot is a lot of people, as you mentioned at the first of all, I think we're all unique and personalizing a protocol shouldn't just be done on your blood biomarkers.

[36:12]It should also be done on all the rest of your genes, all the the other comorbidities you have, all the diseases that you have, and also your preferences and everything, right? So, that that's something that is like very important inside Phoenix, which is having that your own real personalized protocol also based on the effort needed to do something that for some people going into ketosis is easy for some other people, you know, going on very very long runs is easier. For some people like you getting rid of whatever a type of meals and everything is like easier. So, it's very very different depending on your genes, your environment, your habits, your preferences, and your finances,

[36:50]interventions. Your finances, too. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's yeah. Yeah, I never think about that. That's true. So, definitely like being able to personalize it is very important, but the problem is once you want to go down the rabbit hole of personalizing it, you need to do a little bit of research. You need to know what is available out there to like replace or substitute, right?

[37:10]And I feel like that's where you come in because you are an expert at running research, an expert at synthesizing data, and looking at what's out there, and having a person in your camp doing that. I know that during our office call you mentioned that you are kind of a like a buddy on top of just being a coach they feel comfortable asking all the questions they have. So, it for for people who are not necessarily only in cognitive decline, but maybe they don't have time, maybe they have like a big career, they're spending already like 70-80 hours per week at work. They don't have time to do that research. They can use AI, but AI is not super reliable

[37:45]sometimes. So, having a person who is able to go through all of that and give a definitive answer, I think it's it's a big value add. Uh is that And yeah, and that's one thing I learned while I was still at work uh when I was the our command's COVID expert, I had to become their I volunteered actually to become their subject matter matter expert during COVID, and I would reach out to the people who were actually working on the vaccine, who were PhD microbiologists or, you know, scientists, other scientists, and get information and I would run things by them. Like, for example, "Hey, aside from you know, work on the vaccine, what can we do to

[38:25]get people to healthiest that they can be? Let's look at all the research so far on vitamin D and some of these other things. And then I would recommend that to the staff. But one thing I learned was how to read medical studies. And as an analyst, where I also look at bias very carefully, I'm telling you just all my experience, once I look at a medical study, I could tell immediately [laughter] if there's bias. I don't have to read the ending to see, you know, if they had any, you know, if it's like their company study or they had any bias in the study. I could just tell by the way it's written and you know, people cook the books.

[38:55]That's what we, you know, we say in intelligence. And it's not, I mean, you can have someone funding a study and they're still unbiased, but really have to look at it with a skeptical eye and you know, a lot of times if universities are doing it just for science, then they really don't, you know, I I kind of trust it a little bit more than if it's a company. But you know, you can look at all, they could still have great ideas and they could still have a great product. But you have to look at each one separately. So that's why I think AI is lacking cuz they don't really have the judgment to do that right now. So you have to be

[39:28]really careful. Yeah. So you see you have like these two different parameters on evaluating a study, right? One is the bias that that the people [snorts] doing the study might have. The second one is how robust is the methodology by itself already. Those are the two the two different things to like have in one picture to be able to tell if the result is robust enough or not and how how strong the weight is has. And then you can rank the studies, you know, in priority order. Like you can take both of those and say, okay, this one, you know, not funded by, you know, by anyone or this is just NIH or whatever. And by the way,

[40:07]it's a very comprehensive study. It's got hundreds of people, you know, it's randomized controlled trial. So you can kind of rank them and then kind of look at it and see how Yeah, but sometimes people just have ideas and then all of the sudden you might see all these case studies and even and say, "Oh, that's a good idea. It does no harm. Why not try it?" So, you could have a study that I said that isn't really robust, but could be useful to this patient. I've had that happen before. If we move on to your own protocol, tell us more about what you are doing, what interventions you are doing, what led you to follow that

[40:40]specific protocol for you so we can understand a little bit the overall mindset about choosing a protocol. So, I started out and I have my little I'm not not trying to sell it. It's just that this is really a great way if you want to get into and see what the Bredesen protocol has. It's called It's called the End of Alzheimer's program and it does have some specifics on APOE4, but and then you go into your group and then you can find kind of more specifics on, you know, like how to tweak that protocol a little bit more for APOE4s.

[41:10]So, I basically follow that most of the time, like I said, unless I'm on vacation or So, it's it's pretty much like a keto flex diet. I exercise. I do both uh weight training and I do cardio. And I do that almost every day. I'm careful about if I do want to eat carbs that I'll have protein and fats first and then the carbs cuz that won't reduce I mean, increase your blood sugar as much. I do take some supplements. I'm not crazy. I used to take a lot more, but I'm not like crazy with my supplements right now and I'm very I read the literature pretty carefully and try to figure out what it's doing

[41:46]for me and generally I can't feel the difference, but certain things you could feel a little bit you know, a little bit of difference and it you know, of course there's a placebo effect and when you're taking all these different things, it's hard to know what's working, what's not.

[41:58]But I'll look at like, for example, I have MTHFR. There's two different ones, right? I have two of one and one of the other. So, I have three of four. So, I'm not not methylating very well. So, I started I had a homocysteine of I think it was about 13 or 14 when I first started seeing the first integrated medicine doctor that I went to that I told you about. And I started just taking multivitamins with methylated B's and now I'm at seven. And I've been doing it for about 15 years.

[42:27]Like since I first found out about Yeah, cuz I got those genes the same time I got you I found out about those genes the same time I found out about APOE4. So I've been taking those vitamins pretty much almost every day. It's just like and again I'm not affiliated with anything but I take one from Pure Encapsulations.

[42:44]And I really like that and I've been taking that like I said for 13 14 years every day. Along with you know I take my omegas the phospholipid form. I take vitamin D. I take probiotics most days or postbiotics urolithin A cuz I found that more likely to be you know beneficial. I take creatine monohydrate in my water in the morning with my keto start and then every once in a while I'll switch it up and take something else but you know I'll take zinc and then I'll you know I'll get my blood test and see what I might be deficient in. I know I was you know I didn't have enough vitamin A actually for a while. Maybe I

[43:21]wasn't I was trying not to eat too many carrots cuz they're high car >> [laughter] >> they're car then I started taking vitamin A. So yeah, I guess I'm just kind of a well-rounded eater. I try to eat all the different colors of you know color color vegetables if I can but I'm not perfect. Yeah, no no one is.

[43:39]Yeah. I I feel like uh based on everything that you've mentioned you're you're doing like the pretty almost like perfectly right. I mean it's it's you're you're you're you've got it all there. If we move on a little bit to your experience with Phoenix. So I think you joined us last year, right? End of last year. Yes. Uh It was in the beginning. I don't remember exactly when it was but yeah. You offered it >> How what what were the thing that you were looking for before joining us and how was your experience at so far? Well, I've heard about it just through the grapevine and I said I've always been interested in APOE4 specifics. I've been

[44:15]you know reading the apoe4.info boards for years. There's just a lot more information and I liked being able to directly contact people. So I like in fact I met a good friend who now I see every week on the board. Elaine >> Okay. Shout out to Elaine. Found out she was from Florida. I said, "Where are you from?" Tampa. "I'm from Tampa." And then we got together right away. We spent 3 hours talking. So I found a like-minded person. So I really like that. I like all the research. I like the the APOE4 specific podcasts and you know YouTube podcasts that you have.

[44:48]I really watch those. They're unique and I really yeah I learned a lot from them. Let's see. And I haven't really uploaded my blood test yet. You know, I have done so much analysis on every biomarker over the years that I'm kind of taking a break from finding out more cuz I kind of feel like I know and and at some point I will I will do that and when there's new information then I'll work on that side of it. But right now I think I kind of know everything there is to know or almost everything there is to know. I'm not adding in all of like I have a aura ring. I have my Apple Watch. I could add

[45:21]more data and find out a lot more. But I think I kind of know myself by now. So I'm not you know using that as much as I probably could in the future. But I'm sure there'll be new things that you know you come out with that makes sense for me. And I did a lot of work like HRV and did a lot of breath work a couple years ago to try to get my HRV up. You know, I've done a lot of that work before and I know like breath work for me is really valuable. So I do it every day in the car for example. And that gets kind of I could feel my cortisol

[45:51]going down. So there's just a lot of things that I've adopted over the years. Mhm. That Yeah. So for me I think the community is like learning and connecting with people are probably the most important things for me that I really like and just you know, I can always go on there and I like to see what other people say a lot of really smart people who know more than me on you know, many topics. So it's really yeah, it's really valuable.

[46:15]Yeah, and I think that being able to leave so specific is is very important because all the information that you you see out there is not really for us and people have to understand that we have to adapt a lot of things. Okay, very cool. Anything that you believe is missing or that we could do better inside Phoenix? Any features that you feel like is needed or Not right now. I feel like you have a lot covered.

[46:38]I think as we talked before, I think the topic of the microbiome is something Yeah. And I've even seen today I was doing a little bit of research. There are some studies on APOE4, but I as I said like the university that I work with they're coming out with probably the largest trial. It's a observational trial, but it's got so many different components. They're able to pull out and they're going to provide a study on APOE4.

[47:02]I would say like there's many hundreds of people in the study. So you're going to have at least, you know, you're guessing like 25% should at least have one APOE4 allele. So they're going to pull it out, write a paper specifically on the microbiome, you know, from these it might be like the largest group so far. So they might have more information than some of these other studies that are out there. Yeah.

[47:22]And this is on the microbiome and cognition. Yeah, very interesting. We'll try to get them on the on the podcast because I think this is a very like fascinating topic. All right, before we close, one final question. If someone just realized that they carry APOE4, what would you tell them and where should they start? I tell them don't worry. There's a you know, 20 What is it? 25% at least of the population have one copy in most parts of the world. I mean, it yeah. Anyway, so generally there's a lot of people who have it. Not everyone gets dementia, but you have to be more careful. You have more you have a risk factor. You might have other genes that

[48:01]might mitigate it a bit. So, don't you know, don't worry too much cuz the stress is going to make you more, you know, have cognitive issues through the stress. You'll have other problems. But, I think, you know, becoming a Phoenix member, getting a provider who understands APOE4 is important. So, I think when you have that list out, that'll be really valuable for people.

[48:21]Maybe find a friend who has it and you can work on a basic protocol. Call, you know, exercise, nutrition. Two most important things. Mhm. I think and then you can look at supplements and other devices and, you know, see what helps. So, that's what that's what I would say.

[48:38]Don't worry, but be good. Yeah, don't worry, take it easy. I think yeah, don't stress too much. That's It's a good advice because it can be overwhelming. Yeah, it can be very overwhelming. All right, thank you so much, Robin. It was like really lovely chatting with you. Thank you so much for all the insights and for participating in your video, the methodology of doing research. You guys can find Robin inside of Phoenix community. We're launching like Phoenix Pro where he will be a coach inside. So, if you want to work with Robin, I just like reach out directly to me and we can set that like directly. Thank you, everybody. See you on the app. See you guys.