APOE4/4 and in the Best Shape of Her Life at 55. Here's What Changed.

[0:01]So what happens when you find out you carry two copies of the APOE4 gene on your anniversary >> [music] >> in Hawaii in the shower? Well, you'll probably collapse, you'll cry, and then maybe you do something interesting. You might get out, you might sit on the bed, you might open your laptop, and you might start searching. Well, that is the story of Deb. She's a APOE4/4 and a Phoenix member. Her mom had dementia for 16 years, and today she's actually lifting heavier than most guys at her gym, and she's 55. She's also coaching other women through the same fear she felt and living what might be the healthiest chapter of her life. But getting there was not easy. It took 5

[0:48]years, 5 years of her family thinking she was overreacting, 5 years of figuring out what actually works when you have kids, a husband who eats ice cream next to her, and a sugar addiction you are probably not proud of. Well, she said something I keep thinking about because I relate to it [music] a lot.

[1:09]It's so easy to become your APOE4 status, to let that be your whole identity, [music] but that is not what our life is. This conversation gets real. We talk about the guilt of caregiving. We talk about the people-pleasing that keeps women from asking for what they need, and why self-compassion might be the most underrated health intervention out there. I really promise it's worth it if you stay until the end because her closing message is something every APOE4 carrier needs to hear. I like dropped in the shower and started bawling my eyes out. It just hit me so hard that, oh my god, like I could get >> [music] >> Alzheimer's disease. It's so easy to

[1:57]become an APOE4/4. It's not our identity. It's just one part of us. You cannot sacrifice your entire life for that person. Period. End of story. My dad did, and he experienced such muscle loss and deconditioning. He never was able to recover from it. That a lot of women have people-pleasing tendencies. You'll put your own, even your own health needs aside to make sure everybody else is happy. I love being strong. I love that I'm lifting more weights at the gym than a lot of the men. I wanted [music] to prove that women post-menopausally could have a flat stomach. You you've got to let the guilt go.

[2:43]All right. Welcome, everyone. We have with us today Deb Blum, and she is a member of the Phoenix community and a life coach and certified health coach for the past 13 years. Deb is now focused on dementia prevention because it resonates with her as an APOE4/4 carrier. Deb, a very warm welcome. Very excited to have this chat with you. Can you start with telling us about yourselves, where do you live, what does your life look like now? Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm so happy to be talking to you. And I live in Scottsdale, Arizona right now, and it's warm. It's the first thing I'll say. It's very warm. And I have I've

[3:23]been married for almost 25 years. It's hard to believe. And I have two boys, and they are both out of the house, which has actually made my whole my own prevention a little bit easier cuz it's one thing I thought I would share a little bit about today is just how hard it is to to do all of this in the midst of having a family. Yeah. And uh yeah.

[3:45]So that's Sounds like you you live there because I know you are on the Sonoran Desert and in a golf resort, right? Sounds like very cool. Can you tell us if that was a deliberate choice to move there to have a better lifestyle and everything? Well, not really because I was living in San Francisco Bay Area, where I actually had access to even better food and a little bit easier weather for exercise, like outdoor exercise. But one of the reasons why we came here is because my husband loves to golf, and it really has helped him have more of an active lifestyle. And it turns out that I do have a very active lifestyle because of it. I live in a community

[4:23]that it's not a retirement community, but it's a golf community, and everyone is active. And it's got a lot of the components, you know, checks a lot of the boxes of socialization and ac- activity. I wouldn't quite say it does the healthy food box, but I've managed to figure out a way to do that. And it's so it's got some it's got some really good components to it that are brain-healthy, in my opinion. Yeah, that sounds good. And I'm sure like the stress level must be like much lower compared to SF Bay Area. It is true because it is a it's a little bit slower pace here. I mean, I end up sometimes having a faster pace and have to slow

[5:00]myself down, but it is indeed quieter and more peaceful. Great. So you have shared a bit about your mom in the community. Do you want to dive a little bit into that? Like tell us more about how that was. So my mom was young when she got diagnosed with vascular dementia. And by the way, we don't really know if she might have had Alzheimer's disease because we only got a scan for her very early in the process, and because so many people have both vascular, you know, more more than one actual dementia, it's possible she had Alzheimer's as well. Though her her disease did track more on a vascular dementia pattern.

[5:40]But my mom was about 62 years old when her primary care doctor pointed out that something seemed off with her, and honestly, we didn't even notice it. I noticed my mom did silly forgetful things, but I didn't really notice that she was doing anything that would have been a sign of something that's a problem. And and then after that, you know, it was just such a journey because she's she was 78 when she died. So it was a very long journey for her.

[6:07]Luckily, the first 10 years were actually somewhat just manageable, and then they started to get harder. And my mom, unfortunately, did have things like dementia-induced psychosis, and it was during COVID that she ended up in a memory care facility, and it was awful because we couldn't go see her. We had to we had to go visit her through a a window. Well, yeah, that's bad. It was pretty bad until she was put on compassionate care, which is it was a designation. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's a it was a specific designation during COVID, I think, which allowed us to be able to visit and come to her because they were no longer worried about us

[6:44]giving her COVID. I think that was the reason. I'm not 100% sure. We were just told it was compassionate care, and we were able to go in at that point. It was a rough thing because, honestly, I didn't know anything about APOE APOE4 at the time. I knew nothing, and I just I didn't really think about that it was a possibility that I would even get dementia. Like it didn't enter my mind.

[7:02]I was just navigating this with my mom and going through this horrendous experience thinking, I hope I don't get it, but it wasn't the top-of-my-mind thing, and plus I had young children at the time. So I was just really caught up in my life. That must have been like so difficult, like 10 and 15 years afterwards or 16 years afterwards. I know we have a lot of community members who are also like caregivers. Looking back, do you have any advice for them or any lessons that you learned? Well, I think mainly for me it was I I had people I I had the challenge, I think, but also in some ways the blessing of that I lived far away.

[7:41]And my dad took care of her. So I really did lean on him for pretty much everything, and he didn't really ask for that much support from us. But I think the best advice is maybe targeted to people who have children, who are in the situation where they are in a long-distance situation, is to not put too much guilt on yourself. That you can only do it what you can do. You are trying to balance this whole complicated dynamic while trying to run your own family and keep your own stress down and be as supportive as possible. And what I found that I did that I think really proved to be super useful is I found my

[8:19]lane. I found what I was really good at, and I was good at researching, I was good at decision-making, I was good at like looking at the situation and being able to have a little bit of distance from it. And I also think that I don't know if this is So I would say find your lane. My lane was that, but someone else's lane might be being really compassionate. It might be providing care to the primary caregiver. Might be to hire help. But not to feel that you have to be doing everything. And then what you can't do, have self-compassion for the fact that you can't do it, and let it go. Not beat yourself up because

[8:53]what we know is for our brains, we don't want to be super stressed. We want to be able to get sleep. And so if we're if we're beating ourselves up for the things that we can't do and feeling guilty, then that's really not serving us. So I I really did try hard to keep that boundary. Every once in a while I felt some guilt or I felt some pressure, but mostly I knew what I was really good at, and I just did more of that.

[9:15]>> When you decide to pick your lane, is it because your dad was taking care of all the rest? Or do you have like siblings that also picked up their own lane and then they just like build this entire like dynamic? Or how how did that work out? Yeah, and I do have two older brothers who live there. So they did pick up other pieces of it, and I was able to watch kind of what they where the gaps were and fill them in. And I still do that. My dad is now aging, and so I'm the one that's kind of I pick up the places where I can from being far away.

[9:43]And so I think it's kind of finding that combination of what's what are your areas of expertise, and then what's needed, and try to try to find in like a Venn diagram what works best for the family. Because I you cannot do everything. You just can't. And it's an overwhelming thing. And I will tell Okay, I'll give you advice. Here's my advice.

[10:03]I watched my father. This is the some of the most important thing and I tell this to every single person that I know who is caregiving in any way. You cannot sacrifice your entire life for that person. Period. End of story. My dad did and he became sedentary because he wanted to do everything my mom did. My mom wanted to be sedentary and eat Klondike bars. My My dad kind of just did whatever It was the sweetest thing.

[10:30]But you know, he did everything that she wanted. Well, then at the end, the last year, she was super sedentary. And he spent probably 4 months in the in the memory care facility as she was as she was really at the end of her life sitting. And he experienced such muscle loss and deconditioning. He never was able to recover from it. He never recovered from it. It's affected his life since she died. It's really stolen his life. And so, I know that the the one of the highest risk factors for getting Alzheimer's or dementia is actually being a caregiver for someone who has >> I I I didn't know actually. It's a really high risk factor and I've got to

[11:10]believe it's because your sleep is impacted, your stress is impacted and even if you are trying to choose healthy foods and do all those things that there's a point where even a lot of times the people refuse to eat those things and now they're not eating as healthy and I think maybe you start not eating as healthy and I think there's a lot going on there. And I think that the caregiver becomes sedentary because they don't have the time to go to the gym and to do the things that would be to take care of themselves. So, for me, I would say any caregiver out there, it doesn't matter. You you've got to let the guilt

[11:41]go. Guilt is such a killer. And you got to let the guilt go and you got to realize you don't have to be with the person 24/7. Get some Get some help and make sure that you prioritize your own health in the midst of caregiving. And I know how hard it is. I watched my dad.

[11:55]It was so hard for him to do it. I I love that message. Yeah, it's it's really about not being able to pour from an empty cup. Right? Like when you're in the plane, like put on your own oxygen mask before putting it on on others because as you mentioned, it might be a long long journey and it's not about burning out in the first few years and and then sacrificing your own health. It It's also something that is very in my own mind because my dad is getting a bit older. He's in Paris. I mean, between Singapore and San Francisco, which is a complete opposite to to Paris. So, it's it's kind of of difficult. I also don't

[12:28]have like siblings to pick up the other lanes. Yeah, it's something that has been in my mind as well. To to move on to another topic, you mentioned that you didn't know your APOE4 status during this whole time. How did you happen upon it? Like why did you decide to get tested for it? And and how was your your reaction when you discovered it? My mom was dying at the time that I had learned about APOE4. But I I don't know. I guess I'm I've always been a person who feels like I'd rather know than not know things like that. So, I did 23andMe and I didn't take it super seriously. I really didn't. I just I was

[13:07]like, oh, whatever. And nobody would I don't know. What things have changed so much since This was 2021, I think. And things have changed a lot since then. And when I So, I I remember I can remember the exact moment. And I could never told you that I would have reacted this way, but I was in Hawaii and it was my anniversary and we were I was in a hotel. My husband was not there and I was taking a shower before we were going out that night. And I just was scrolling on my phone looking at and I got my results and I was like, oh, cool. And I'm just scrolling through and you know, I'm seeing this and that

[13:47]and caffeine sensitive and blah blah blah. And then I get to APOE4 and I read it. I'm not kidding you. I read it probably 20 times to make sure that it was right. I've even checked it in the past year to make sure I wasn't wrong. I even double-checked it just because I couldn't believe it was possible because before I did it, I would tell you that I was 100% sure that I would not have the gene because I'm an eternal optimist and I'm delusional. So, I When I saw it, I I was like, what? That's not possible. But I got into the shower and I did something that I just wouldn't have imagined. I

[14:24]like dropped in the shower. It brings tears to my eyes right now because I just dropped and started bawling my eyes out. It just hit me so hard that Oh my god, like I could get Alzheimer's disease? I could get dementia? I could get something bad like that? And it overwhelmed me, but then I also was like, okay, but it doesn't mean anything. Don't future catastrophize, you know. You're going to be fine. And so, I kind of pulled myself together.

[14:51]And I would say I had probably three times after that where I just I I it hit me at different levels. Now, one time that I remember I was out to dinner and it just hit me so hard that that this felt like a little bit like a diagnosis.

[15:08]I almost like couldn't reconcile the bigness of it in my head. But I will tell you another thing that happened to me was that when that happened, my husband, as I said, wasn't there. But I went into fix it mode. So, I got out of the shower, got myself ready and sat down on the bed and I pulled out my laptop and I started searching.

[15:26]>> [laughter] >> And there wasn't really that much. There really wasn't. And I didn't even find APOE info right away, but I found Dale Bredesen. And then I remember reading a critique on him and thinking, no way. I'm not doing all that stuff. That's ridiculous. That's just too much stuff to have to do. And I had such a resistance to all of it. But I feel like there was another part of me that also felt this sense of empowerment as well.

[15:55]Because now I knew and I felt like, okay, I can do something about this. I'm young. I can do something about this. So, I kind of did balance I I had lots of emotions around it. And as I said, it was over a couple of years. I had a lot of emotions around it. And I think it's normal and I think people need to know that that's a normal response or whatever someone's response is. It's It's normal to have whatever your response is. It's big news. And but in in retrospect, I look at it as I don't so sure I would quite say that it's How do you put it sometimes? Like that it totally changed your life or improved

[16:30]your life? How do you usually put it when you say finding out your APOE4 status was really positive For me, it became really a catalyst catalyst for change. Yeah. Yeah. And it did for me, too. But I definitely had a lot of those hard challenges that were related to being in a family that we had established a lot of habits and routines. A lot of it was around food. A lot of it was around staying up late at night. And I I it took me time to build in these changes.

[17:04]It wasn't like some people where they found out and they just got into action. I tried to get into action, but I had a combination of a few things. One is APOE4.info overwhelmed me and I didn't know where to go with it all. I was like, oh god, there's just so much information and so many people and they all know so much and I don't know anything. And so, I remember feeling like I was overwhelmed there and then I couldn't really find that much other information that was really valuable for me. So, I was I felt a I felt pretty much alone.

[17:35]And and I I'm so thankful because obviously the Phoenix has been such an amazing community and a place to go that I feel like I have people who understand me and who get it. And there's more and more information out there. So, I feel like I'm so excited. There's so much to do. But at the time, I I don't know whether it was just me not able to find it or whether 2021 really was a different beast than 2026 is. But there was it was definitely hard for me. And I feel like the thing that I've never gotten support on that I've had the hardest time with and why I want to help people in this area is how

[18:09]to make these decisions in a way that work for our lives. How to have conversations with people about it. How to How to talk to our family. It was very hard for my family. They didn't understand and they thought that I was just overreacting and I was obsessing and that, you know, it was just Now they understand, but it took a lot It took all these years. It really has taken me five full years to feel like I'm really supported in my family with my APOE4 status. So, walk us through a little bit of that. There's a lot to unpack in everything that you mentioned here. I I think that the first message is really it's normal to go

[18:44]through different ways. I had the same thing where you feel like a lot of sadness at one point in time and then you get into action mode, but then after that, you're more about negotiating it. That important where I really get it. So, it's like all these like stages of grief, right? That you have when you lose someone or when you go through grief in these sorts of grief. And I think it it hits everyone differently, but we can do go through like the same type of motions over time. And then there's the moment where I guess you start actually like bringing changes.

[19:16]And for you, because you had two kids still at home at that point in time, I guess, like you have to explain to them what's happening to your husband, to your kids. So, how did you have these conversations? You mentioned that they didn't really understand it. How did you have these conversations? Well, I think the first message of this is just to say we do have to have these conversations.

[19:35]Mhm. Yeah. As much as it's some people don't want to have the conversations because it because they get pushback. They're difficult conversations. But and I I always feel like as a parent, you're you're balancing not scaring your kids with giving them enough information about why mommy's doing something different. Yeah, because they carry the gene, too. So, yeah. Well, right.

[19:57]>> them, right? Yeah. Right. And at the beginning, they didn't I didn't even say anything about that to them. But now they get it. So, if that was 5 years ago, my kids are now 24 and 22. So, Yeah. they were one of them was after school and the other one was home, but they were still home a lot more than they are now because they're older now.

[20:21]I think that a few things that let's just like kind of point out the areas that were the hardest. I would say the areas that were the hardest were around food and sleep. I think those were the probably the two hardest ones. And I If I were to tell you the hardest thing for me in this whole thing has probably been my sugar addiction.

[20:41]Yeah. >> And really getting It's taken me time to really let let go of that. So, let's see. I think I want to share my message first, which is that one of I think one of the things that's really important is that we take time. That we don't feel that we have to fix everything right away, do everything right away. And that when you're a parent, it's okay to hold both. It's okay to hold you want to make these changes that you know will be best for your health and you have family traditions and ways of showing up and that you don't have to rip the band-aid off. You don't. You really don't. In fact, I think that the social component

[21:19]of family is so important Yeah, it is. it could be to the detriment of everything and everyone. So, I allowed myself space to to do things in a way that held it all. And it's still a balance for me. When my kids home come home from college, I'm still like, "Are we going to make pasta? We're going to make, you know, we're going to make lasagna and then we're going to make bread and everyone's going to want to have ice cream." And do I say to them we have to go to dinner early and do I not?

[21:47]Do I let that be my night that I'm okay with whatever? still balancing it, but at least now they understand it better. So, I think that's the key is how do you start to have these conversations? So, I like I never just came out and said to my kids, "I've got this gene and it means I'm going to get Alzheimer's disease and this and that." I didn't really do that. I just said that not that it does mean it, but I didn't want to scare them. I And I just said, [clears throat] "You know, I know that I'm a higher risk now and I want to make some certain changes in my life." And I

[22:14]think they were like, "Whatever, Mom. Do whatever you want to do." But when they started to affect them, then they started to push back on it because if I wasn't going to watch a a movie, they're like, "Mom, don't be a party pooper. Who cares? Just one night. It's no big deal." Or I wanted to have go out to dinner at 5:15. They're just like, "That's once, Mom." You know, so now we have second dinner in our house where they can have second dinner afterwards because we got to dinner earlier, but You know, but so I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure if I'm being specific enough because I think every person has their own challenges, but I think that

[22:48]even just time, you know, I was so I guess I was lucky in some ways that I found out when I was you know, like 49 instead of when my kids when I was 39 because I know there are some women who have posted in the community about being 39 years old and having young children and they're pulled in a million directions and you know, they're making mac and cheese for their kids and barely even able to eat a piece of chicken and you know, how are they going to do all this? And I think that there has to be a lot of grace for yourself in that time to do the best you can, to pick the low-hanging fruit. What

[23:21]are the things you can do? You know, and it's things like sometimes it's what don't you do? Like maybe if you drink alcohol, maybe you're like, "Ah, well, it doesn't really matter to me that much and I'm just going to stop drinking alcohol." Maybe not. Maybe that starts to show up in your social life and you're like, "Ah, I can't do that yet.

[23:37]I'm not ready to take the alcohol." Maybe it's that you do go to you go for more walks with your baby. Whatever it is, not to feel that you're doing you're not doing enough or that you're behind, but to really just know it's okay to go at whatever pace that balances your full life and this It's so easy to become an APOE4/4. It's so It's easy to become that that that's your life. And that's not what our life is. Our life is that we have this thing. It's not our identity.

[24:06]It's just one part of us. And it we have to hold it in the container of all of who we are instead of that now the only thing that matters is that you don't get dementia. Like, no. That's not That's not the only thing that matters. Even though I understand there have been times when it pulls me down that path as well. It's such a way to live life to only like be focused on that, right? You have like so many different pillars in life and only focusing even on the health pillar will be like missing out on a lot of what life is worth living for, right? I I agree with you on I

[24:36]mean, several message again here. I I'd say in terms of knowing when to stick to a full-on protocol that is hardcore with everything sleep, diet, exercising and everything. What I I typically see with members who are succeeding and then in in handling these talents of not being completely miserable because you optimize your life away, but also doing enough is exactly what you mentioned when your kids come back. If they want to have lasagna, when they want to have a specific meal, then you cook it for them because it's a specific moment that is kind of time-boxed where every other days when they are not here, then you follow your protocols, but when there's specific events, then you can divert

[25:14]from it and just enjoy life without the guilt and without the guilt is the keyword here. For some people like me, it's like when we travel, um you know, HQ, let's say for me like a Singapore, SF, Paris, I'll stick to my protocol, but when I travel out, I'll myself to have whatever food or drinks or whatever. But for some other people when you have like kids, it's yeah, when they visit or when you have family events. And I think that's like really critical when you have 90% of your um time completely like nailed in, locked in into the protocol and then you have this 10% where you choose to divert from it. Another thing that

[25:48]you mentioned that is interesting is also the age at which you discover you realize you carry APOE4. What you mentioned about taking time is also my view. I I believe in not stacking 20, 30 different interventions because I mean, the main reason is you wouldn't know which one works or not.

[26:04]Um right now, I I had this conversation with uh Dr. Heather Sandison where she mentions that she takes a completely opposite approach of telling her patients to stack everything in one go and and to go all in into that. And then we realized that the main difference is age. It makes sense when you are, let's say, 65, 70 where you don't really have time to experiment that much, to really stack as much as you can because you can potentially gain back a lot of years right away. But it's true that when you are in your 30s or 40s, you honestly still have a lot of time, right? So, uh take it slowly. So, I think that's

[26:40]one element. What do you think? Yeah, well, I totally think so. And and it's interesting so, this question of whether there's a time whether when you're younger, there's a little bit more time and like so maybe you have the freedom to be able to maybe choose an intervention or a couple of interventions and then work on those and then do other interventions as you build on that. And then the verse is when you're older and you kind of feel like you like maybe you're 65 years old and you need to do them all. I'll point out another piece to that, though. It's not just that you have a little more time cuz apparently midlife starts at 18. I

[27:14]never knew that, but that's what they the dates are that they say if they say 18 to 65, that is midlife. Apparently that. It's a pretty great. So, we know that anything we can do sooner is better, right? We know that, but there's another piece to that, too, though, is that when you're 65, you probably have time to do all of them cuz now that my kids are out of the house, I do actually have more time to dedicate to which supplements, doing research on my supplements, spending time trying to optimize my health health. I mean, my sleep, sorry. My to my sleep and make sure that I do things like get up and get sunlight in my eyes in the morning

[27:56]and then at night try to watch the sunset and do things that I can actually find the time and the space for. But when you're 39 years old or 30 years old and you have little kids and you find out that you have APOE4 or that your parents are you know, have Alzheimer's disease and you have a high risk. At that point, you you literally have limited time. You actually do. So, you have to be genuinely sensitive to how much can you do and holding also the imperative because it is imperative.

[28:24]It's not You can make it optional, but you then do increase your chances of getting the disease later. Right now, we know some of these things help. And I guess I would say to people, if there was nothing else that you could do, think that I think I would probably say the top two things I would say to do if you were a mom is get more physical activity. So, it might mean that you have to do things with your kids.

[28:47]Wrestle with them more. Go out for walks more. Take up other activities with them more. You know, on the weekends, go kick the soccer ball around more. Even if you don't go to the gym, just do more things together. It'll be good for them, too. So, that's one thing I would say. It doesn't have to take more time. It could just be taking the time you would have maybe watched a movie and instead before you watch that movie, you all go out and walk those stairs or go on a hike or walk around the city or bounce on a trampoline. Whatever you want to do. You can find other ways to be physically activity physically active. And the

[29:19]second thing I would say is optimize your sleep. And people will say you can't optimize your sleep, but that is actually a choice because that is because a parent feels that they have to do a million things when their kids are sleeping. But most of our kids go to sleep pretty early. And if not, you can train them to go to sleep pretty early.

[29:36]So, you actually could go to sleep at the same time as them. You really could. And you can optimize your sleep without a tremendous amount of effort. And so, these are two two you have to do that don't actually take a ton of time, but they they more just take commitment and a change in the way that we look at things and those things would make a huge long-term difference in a person's in a mom's life. Not to mention the fact that if she were to exercise and she were to sleep, she would feel more energy during the day. She would probably be more patient with her kids.

[30:05]She'd probably feel like a better mom. So, there are countless other like, you know, I'm on like follow-on things that will happen by prioritizing those things and again, it's also great for your kids. So, I I think that there are win-wins that we can do too. We can look at these things and say and even teaching our kids to be healthier in their foods. You know, I'll be honest with you. I kind of wish I had an excuse to be healthier with them because I ended up passing on a lot of bad habits from my childhood without knowing any better. And if I had known, I would have if I had known some of these things, I

[30:35]would have made those changes in our household at that age. So, in some ways talk about a blessing. I mean, you said like for you it was kind of a catalyst. It really can be a catalyst to create a lot changes in our families. And and you mentioned somewhere else I heard you say not regrettable or no regret things that you can do. You know, there are some things maybe they're questionable. You know, maybe some supplements. I don't know. Should I do that or not, you know, but there are some things that are so clear that they're healthy for everyone.

[31:04]They're good habits to do for everyone. So, it's kind of finding those things and say, what if you can't What if you don't do it for you, but you do it for your kids? What if you say, you know what, my kids definitely going to have one APOE4 gene or maybe not for someone who has only one, but you know, there's a like good likelihood they are. Well, jeez, I could really help them. And and you know, there's a framing that happens in our mind where we could do anything for our kids. I always think if I'm doing it for my kids, I could do it. If I have to do it for me, might get a

[31:30]little bit harder. So, and I never really didn't think this was going to turn into a parenting conversation, but honestly, I've been thinking of this one [clears throat] person who posted recently in one of the communities and I feel so bad for her because I know what she's going through is so hard. And then just kind of feeling like the things are rolling off my tongue for things that someone like that can do to balance all of the demands of parenthood and carrying the burden of the APOE4 gene. Yeah, makes total sense and especially when you are juggling a job and job and everything else at the same time and when you are relatively younger, right? I like what

[32:03]you said about choosing the quality time you spend with your kids as in making more physical activities there instead of just sitting down and watching a movie. You could do that something else or just walking to that movie. That makes a lot of sense to to add on like these and just consciously pick the activities that do both, right? Quality time with the kids and at the same time like good for your health and their health as well. And as you mentioned, everything that you do is not only for preventing dementia and Alzheimer's at 65 or later, it actually gives you the benefits like straight away. Exercising more, sleeping better, you have more energy, you are getting compared to you

[32:37]have more discipline. And it's like a very good like virtuous circle that will end up like building your protocol that way instead of trying to stack everything at one time especially when you are a bit younger. And I also like what you mentioned about the motivation that you get when you are not doing that only for yourself, but for someone else as well. And that someone else if it's your kids, then that's even better. Yeah, totally. I mean, it's definitely been true for me that, you know, that um the more that I think about my kids, the more that I am able to kind of put myself aside and and do it kind of like for the higher good. And

[33:10]I would say now that they're older, I've been doing this for myself, but I'm actually having an inspiration right now that I really am glad that I'm doing this and role modeling this for my kids. I do see them without me telling them to choose differently. They are making healthier food choices. I think that they prioritize things that they might not have prioritized like sleep. And one of my sons is in medical school and he still prioritizes his sleep. Yeah. He does. He really does.

[33:39]Yeah, and so I think it's important to remember that our kids are always watching as well and so are other people. I mean, one thing that I notice is I'm I'm impressed by how many people in my community want to make changes because they see me at the gym and they know that I prioritize exercise. They know that I prioritize my food and it's giving other people permission to choose healthier foods, to not drink. I noticed I don't know whether it's me or whether it's just society is changing. Way more people when we go out to dinner aren't drinking cuz I don't drink. They I think they did drink, but now I notice they're just getting a soda water and

[34:14]I'm like you know, like a a fizzy water. I'm like what's happening there? And so, I think that's another thing for all of us to remember is that that our healthy choices affect other people. My husband's way healthier than he used to be and I try really hard not to impose on him either, you know, you know, it's funny. People talk about environment matters, right? And it does.

[34:33]Like if you're with a partner who eats really healthy, it is going to rub off on you and be helpful, but I don't have that. I don't. My husband eats whatever he wants to eat and he eats ice cream a couple nights and so it's been harder for me cuz I do have a sugar addiction or did have a sugar addiction. I really think it's actually changed for me as I've reduced my carbs, but it's an uphill battle when you don't have someone who is is supporting you. And so, I just want to have a call out to all the others that feel that way in their own home. It's not not everyone has somebody who's on the same page as

[35:05]them and who are doing doing things to make it easier for you. Sometimes it's rough. Yeah, it is. I had so many situations where I was trying to do like fasting or keto and then my partner went back home and she was eating McDonald's and I could smell the McDonald's from upstairs and that was insane. I was in the middle of a two-day fast and I could like smell it. I could even smell like rice cooking now when I fast for two days. So, yeah, it's it's very difficult when when the partner is not on the same health journey. But hopefully, if it's not the way that they inspire us or they like rub off on us in terms of good

[35:42]habits, maybe it's the other way around, right? We make them healthy. Yeah, so it's one way I guess. Yeah, I guess I guess. Totally. And it's actually made me a more disciplined person cuz I have to be. And I think that Yeah, and I kind of feel like I don't know. I I was listening to one of your other interviews. Was it John? Was it John that you interviewed? No, maybe not.

[36:01]Anyway, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I interviewed John, but yeah. Yeah, he was saying he was just so optimistic and so you know, so just so positive about everything he was doing and I've been feeling more that way. I think that the more that I get into my groove and I feel like I'm doing it for me, that I have more agency instead of feeling like a lot of the things I was like, I need to do these things like check the boxes.

[36:26]I have to I have to get better at this and I have to go to bed at this time. And man, I got to figure out my HRV. Why is it so bad? You know, and I was kind of just in this like almost a pressure loop. And last year, January of last year, I really reclaimed agency over everything. I decided to make decisions that were that I knew were the best for me. It was not because of APOE4. It was just because of being healthy and APOE4 informed it because I knew what I needed to do, but I really I lost weight. I started exercising every single day. I started lifting weights. I started doing

[37:01]all of the things that really took me that long to fully engage in all of it. And I started to make choices like when I go to a restaurant, like tonight we are going out to eat and it's going to be later than normal, but I already know what I'm getting before I go there. I I now have the confidence to ask the waiter or waitress to, you know, can I get a piece of salmon and can you use extra virgin olive oil and you know, make requests for things. I've been I've been advocating at restaurants all over the place for healthier options and I want to speak to something for for people because I don't know if this is a

[37:34]gender thing or not, but I do notice with women that a lot of women have people-pleasing tendencies and conflict-avoiding tendencies and it can be really hard to be a burden or to disrupt things, ask for what you want. You'll put your own even your own health needs aside to make sure everybody else is happy. That could be your family. It also could be just friends out at dinner or it could be the waitress or the waiter that you don't want to be a burden on them. And I I do know how hard it is and it's taken a lot of practice to build up the courage to say, I just have to ask for what I need. I'm going

[38:13]to ask for it. I've had to get clear before I go so that when I go there, I know what am I actually looking for? Am I looking for a low-carb meal or am I looking for, you know, high vegetables? Like what am I looking for? And the more clear I get, the more I'm able to say, well, if I had a piece of salmon, what do you How do you cook that? And then when they tell me how they cook it, I can ask for something else. And then, oh, well, do I want to have the red vegetables? What are you doing with those? Then okay, no, I'm going to get a salad instead. So, I get to choose these

[38:40]things and a lot of that has to do with just knowing ourselves, too, right? Becoming aware of of what we like what's good for us. What types of foods are going to give us a higher glucose spike and keep us up at night versus foods that are going to be okay for us to eat at a different time of the day. And so, I just wanted to call out how it can be really hard to stand up for ourselves. It can be hard to ask our partners to do something different. Like I've actually had to ask my husband, I really want to go to bed an hour earlier. I know you don't want to and

[39:08]you don't have to, but we usually go to bed together. And so, what do you want to do? And he ended up joining me. And so, we go to bed an hour earlier. It's not always best for him, but he does now because he wants cuz he's chosen he wants to go to bed with me at the same time. And so, then he had to make that sacrifice and So, sometimes you have to ask for things and I got to tell you that I'm not so sure I would have asked for those things five, seven years ago.

[39:33]And so, some of this work isn't just in knowing what to do or creating sustainable habit change. It's actually in conversations and And asking for the things you need and finding that inner courage to be able to speak up for ourselves in difficult like not difficult situations but situations where you don't want to rock the boat or you don't want to be the difficult person or where it's embarrassing like everybody's sitting there and you're going to order and you're just like, "Can I have this question and that question?" And then the waiter has to leave and go ask and then come back again and then tell you and then you're like, "Well, hold on a second. I have to

[40:07]look again." And to take up all that time and space is not easy for people and I think especially women. And so finding that internal place in us that says, "You know, I do matter. I am worth >> And this effort. I'm worth prioritizing my own my own self. I'm worth even spending money on wild salmon versus farmed or spending money on supplements or something." If there's a lot of stuff that's happening in our heads that keep us from doing the things that we want to do. And so I I think that's important to note that there's something else happening for people that isn't checking the the things off the list or getting a thing done or knowing what's the right

[40:50]thing to do. There's a lot of other dynamics happening that keep us from making those choices. I mean, take alcohol as an example. If if your whole social circle is around drinking, you may feel like you can't stop Yeah. to drink. You're just the the pressure is enormous. Yeah. And so it that requires some other inner soul-searching sometimes. Not just It's not It's not just "Well, just stop drinking." It's not that simple.

[41:17]>> I agree. Yeah. I Yeah, that that resonates a lot. And I And for me going to restaurants with friends on a keto is really like asking all the questions about sugar everywhere because they put sugar everywhere, right? In sauces and and all that. Especially now that I came back to Asia, I realized soy sauce has tons of sugar.

[41:33]So it's like really really tricky to do it. And And same thing in social circles. I like all my social circle drink heavily. Like really really heavily. And I would say I'd say one key thing is to maybe align your identity to someone who is healthy and then people tend to understand like that you're okay, he's a healthy person as he's an athlete and so on. Like whatever name you want to give yourself and then you stick to that.

[41:59]I want to say that persona, but it's a kind of yourself, too. And having that identity makes people understand it way more than just saying, "Oh, I'm doing that for X or Y reason." And if you don't want to talk about it with everyone, then it's also easier. Like for example, me I just say, "Okay, I'm an athlete. I want to train. I don't want to drink alcohol." And And so on.

[42:16]So that that might help as well. Yeah, that's actually a really good point. And I I hadn't really thought about it from that point of view, but it does keep it simpler to say something that I'm not sure what that would be for me. I really don't know what that would be. I think one piece is just that I something that's changed for me and this goes to the point of how this has been a catalyst. In the beginning, I couldn't quite see that this was going to be good for me. I really just >> couldn't see fully that I I remember thinking Remember we talked about like we were in and out. Like I would

[42:49]sometimes be like, "Oh, I'm in action mode. This is inspiring me. This is motivating me." But it's only now that I'm really seeing that like I love being healthy. I love being I actually really love being thin. I love being strong. I love doing double steps all the time up the stairs and that it's easy for me. I love that I'm lifting more weights at the gym than a lot of the men. I like these things.

[43:13]They're fun, you know? You know what I mean? Like I like to prove points, too. I like to be So I like to prove things that are outside of the realm of A1C. Like I wanted to prove that women post-menopausally could have a flat stomach. I was like, "I'm I'm proving that." So sometimes it's just that identity of wanting to be healthy and strong and capable and you know, like that it's easy to get down on the floor and pick something up or it's easy to throw my knees in the air. Things like that that just are today things.

[43:43]Like my whys, I have whys for the future, but I have a whole section of whys that are right now, right this minute. Like good sleep, that I feel better with the food that I eat. Even though maybe sometimes I have that temptation like I just really want ice cream right now. But if I choose the healthier option, I know my future self is going to be so much happier. Maybe only two hours later, but certainly two months later it's going to be happier. I think it's one of the most kind of self-loving things we can do is do things that are for the now and also do things that are for the future us to

[44:21]know that we're >> Yeah. Like you know, we're taking we're caring for our bodies. We're caring for ourselves. And And I think I just also feel this sense that we're not just preventing Alzheimer's disease. We're not just preventing Alzheimer's disease. We are preventing a lot of other diseases.

[44:34]>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Everything actually is very aligned with overall longevity. Whether it's cardiovascular health, metabolic health, everything is very very aligned. It is. It is. And I don't know about you, but I see a lot of people in their 70s and 80s that I'm like, "I really don't want to be like them. I don't want to be like them."

[44:52]>> I I like what you you know, message about making your future self proud by the decisions you make today. And I I think like people don't realize how fast it compounds. It compounds very very fast. You will see like results in 1 month or 2 months. Especially if you start exercising, fixing your diet, you'll feel more energetic. You'll feel difference in the mirror. And all of that is like very I mean, it's not all about vanity, right? But it's still very very motivating to see like physical changes in your body, in your lives, and everything. So that's a again a good like feedback loop to build momentum on starting to have like more interventions. Yeah, and you know what

[45:26]you just made me think about around healthy eating that your taste buds totally change. So for people who think, "I'll never like that." I I was never a person who liked vegetables. I made vegetables for my kids cuz I was supposed to. And but I wasn't really good at making vegetables. It actually all changed for me when I temporarily was a vegan. And you have to learn how to cook vegetables if you're a vegan.

[45:49]You have to learn how to cook them well and enjoy them. And I started to think actually vegetables are kind of good. And I kind of can't believe how many things I love that I never would have eaten before. Broccoli sprouts and bok choy and all these things that I just would have never thought that I would have liked. And I love them. And I know for sure that that is because our taste buds changed and we we actually we we reset from even if it's not processed food. I mean, for me probably there was processed food in there, too. But just the sweets and the salty and all the flavors that everything that I loved

[46:25]eating. And doesn't mean that I don't eat pizza or other things occasionally, but there's a big difference between what I used to eat and what I do eat now. And I definitely know that I couldn't like that past me could have never imagined the types of foods that I would have been eating now or you know, that I am eating now. I could never imagine I would be eating them because I I was like it's such a sacrifice. Like it felt like such a sacrifice. And now it feels It feels different for me. I I'm kind of surprised I'm saying this because I still think that's one of the hardest places. I don't know about you,

[47:01]but like the food part is probably the hardest hardest place for me. Like I would like to be able to eat what I want to eat and eat what everyone else is eating and feel free to eat whenever I want to eat. And I just know that it's not good for me. I watch it on my CGM. I know it's not good for me. But even now, I'm actually pretty happy. And I >> [clears throat] >> can't wait to eat my avocado on my Ezekiel bread or you know, even my salad with broccoli sprouts. And I find olive oil with vinegar delicious. You know, and things that I just couldn't have imagined before. There's hope for all of

[47:36]us who have taste buds that are trained to like processed foods and sweets and treats. There's hope that we can all find our way to healthier foods and actually Yeah, I love that. I mean, food is also the hardest part. Like food and and drinking is the hardest part for me as well. I'm a big foodie. And I agree with you. I think it gets better over time. So the the main message here is it might sound daunting at the beginning to change your diet because you're thinking, "Oh, no. It's like so many decades now of of misery. If I don't like it today." But actually it becomes like much easier and better. And it's

[48:07]actually the same thing for like sports and exercising. Right? You start enjoying it. Like it's an example. Like if you start running, at the beginning might sound very very difficult, very difficult. But then afterwards, you tend to like it more and more. You enjoy it more and more. So the effort is way lower. And at one point in time you start enjoying it. So it's more like positive effect rather than, you know, bringing your discipline on it. And that's a very good message, I'd say. I I'd like to go a little bit on what you are currently doing in terms of interventions. Especially because in in our community, we we talk a lot about the overwhelm problem, right? How about

[48:42]there is like so much information out there. Every week you have new studies. You should do like animal models. But things to try, things to test, things to buy. So it's very difficult. So how do you nail down on your routine, your interventions? Well, this year this past year has been very much dedicated to my glucose control and my sleep.

[49:05]So thanks to the CGM. Yeah. And so I had already been been doing a lot of things. So you know, I had already been kind of chipping away at things. But let's just see. So my interventions right now, my interventions I would say over the past 12 months. Intermittent fasting, but I had been doing that for a long time. But really dialing in intermittent fasting in and being super committed and not wavering. No snacking, which was a big change for me. It was wearing a CGM that opened my eyes to "Oh my god, I eat all day long and I didn't even realize I did.

[49:40]>> [laughter] >> But I was eating healthy stuff. I would grab a handful of blueberries. I'd grab a handful of nuts. I'd grab these things and then I was like, but my glucose is up all day long and I had no idea. So no snacking. I had already been cutting out processed foods, but I really cut it.

[49:53]Like I didn't even eat pasta or crackers or anything like that. And if we eat pasta, we only make homemade pasta with organic and everything. Even that's rare. I dialed in my supplements and that's been hard. That's been really hard. you that in a second, but the other thing I did was I really started working on progressive overloading my weights. Um like just super committed to progressive overload and I I'm always like can I do 5 more pounds? Can I do 3 more pounds? Can I do this? And it's fun and it's been a real challenge and I built a lot of muscle. In fact, when I lost my weight, I kept I maintained my

[50:23]muscle, which is very unusual. Usually you would lose weight you'd lose fat and you'd lose muscle, too, but I lost fat and I maintained my muscle, which was awesome. Yeah, so I was really proud of myself. At first I was super disappointed. I'm like how come I didn't build muscle? And my kids are like, "Dad." Or "Mom." I said, "Dad."

[50:38]I said, "Mom, but you kept it all." I was like, "Oh yeah, that's a good point." And then sleep and that has been all connected. All of it's connected. So my exercise is connected to my sleep and my sleep is connected to my food and so it's been just a [clears throat] little bit of a mind game of trying to just pay attention to what actually is affecting these things. So that's probably been a a big piece and Claude to like chat GPT for anyone who doesn't know, but I used Claude to help me to analyze some of these things. I upload my screenshots of my Lingo CGM results and my aura ring and I've been dialing all that in and

[51:13]that has been great. A couple of other things that I've been paying attention to, but I'm not needing to do anything about right now are hearing because we know in the Lancet study that they've talked about making sure that your hearing has been checked and that you wear hearing aids if it's not good. And the other one is blood pressure, which I have great blood pressure, but I've been paying attention to that and I've been paying attention to my cholesterol, which is something that I still don't have an answer on how I want to how I want to address that cuz I do have high cholesterol and I am taking ezetimibe.

[51:42]So that's my choice right now. My drug of choice to manage my cholesterol is ezetimibe and I'm always in the decision-making process about statins. It's an ongoing decision-making process that I just haven't haven't dialed in and it's very hard because I'm sure you've seen this, too, you know, that one sometimes you pull one lever and the other lever like that changes something else. So I was really and I was I think I was trying to get a little more protein. And then my cholesterol numbers went up. So it's finding that like really difficult sweet spot, which let's just be clear on something. Not everybody's going to want to do all this. I'm a little bit of a nerd and I

[52:15]kind of like this stuff and I kind of geek out on and I don't know. There's just like an analytical part of me that thinks it's so fun to figure out what's right for me, what works best for me. I like to experiment and the scientific aspects of it. Yeah, I like that, too. It's kind of a puzzle. But yeah, protein intake without saturated fat, cholesterol. I think you have to eat your your chicken breast and everything.

[52:40]Once you you start lifting in the gym, I think chicken breast is like the the go-to thing or taking like whey protein isolate. That's a Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it's been hard cuz then if I I try to go do some plant-based products, so I'm like, oh well, let me see what I do if I can bring in some beans or something and then boom, all of a sudden I'm like now my you know, my insulin's up and I've got that I'm trying to pull the lever on. So and that's one of the things that's tricky about APOE4 is that it's um it has its claws into so many little spots of our life that and and I loved

[53:14]when you were interviewing the doctor, the woman and she was talking about us being like the animals in the wild that we're like stronger and more. I kind of thought that was pretty fun cuz I was thinking I love to see places where I'm where I'm like I don't know, like there's a like a grit in me. Like there's a little bit of grit in me that wants to be that strong person. Like yeah, like we're capable.

[53:37]Like I can fast and I can do all these things because you know, it's it's part of my constitution, you know? I mean, yeah, we're built for that. We're built for hunting in the jungle. It's kind of cool. Except for then I'm like, okay, but then what about the saturated fat thing? Yeah.

[53:52]I want to be able to eat those animals that I killed. Yeah. I mean, yeah, but then because it implies a lot of running and a lot of exercising to kill those animals, right? In the jungle. That's That's a good point. So we burn it all off. And it's probably because they they were eating only one animal every like few days, right? There's a lot of fasting in the in between and everything. A little bit like lions when when you look at lions, they spend a lot of time resting and only eating after they they hunt, but then they rest for several days.

[54:17]Like a lot of fasting as well. Anyway, yeah. Thanks, Chris. I would love to ask you a bit more since we have a bit more time about how do you find the Phoenix community? Like what do you like inside? Any improvement points that you see that we could do? Well, I mean, it's a really cool community. I am so impressed by the people in it. I am so impressed by you.

[54:39]I don't want to, you know, give you a big head or anything like that, but honestly, what you've created is amazing. Like your ability to get things done and all of the conversations you have and the way that you educate us and keep us informed and not only that, but the way that you ask us for questions and you want to know really truly what we want to know and your adaptability and your attunement to the community is it's outstanding. It's outstanding and honestly, it's like a it's special. It's something that I just don't I don't I don't experience. I've been in a lot of communities. I don't think I've ever been in a community like

[55:15]this. And the people in it, they're so highly a combination of motivated, but not just that. I mean, plenty of them aren't maybe doing all the things, but they're engaged. They're interested. They're helpful. They're curious. They're smart. They're capable. They're vulnerable, too. Well, they share when they're not able to do something or when something hasn't worked out and they're human. They're not just putting on this act like they've got it all together.

[55:40]They're showing their humanity of how hard it is to create change and sustain it and how hard it is even to balance all of these things that we're balancing and it's been great. I mean, sometimes I I relate to you in some ways because I'm a I'm a drink from a fire hose kind of a person. Like that's what people in my community think I get I create so much content and I'm always got new things going on and I think you're there's a bit of a drinking from a fire hose experience that I have in it, but I have just learned how to go in when I'm open to that. You know, go in there and read

[56:14]and I the search function is just my friend because I'm always going in and searching instead of just asking a question about saunas. I search and then I go, "Oh, look at that. There's a whole bunch of people who were talking about saunas." Or you know, I was I had the question yesterday about a drug a a supplement PS. I can't remember what it actually stands for, but the PS drug you were talking about it and that you take it with the cold the citicoline or the alpha Do you remember which one that is? The drug that's PS. Anyway, there's a drug I mean a a supplement that I was looking up and I put it out in there and I was

[56:49]able to get more information about it and I I think it's my best resource because you know what it's like to go some places where it's just a bunch of people with a bazillion different ideas and you're chasing your tail. And there are enough people in here where everybody's trying to keep a balanced It's like almost like a a code even if we haven't talked about it that we're trying to keep some balance in it all.

[57:12]We're trying to find a way to do this without it being, you know, four part full full four full-time jobs, you know, or that we feel overwhelmed or that we feel stressed or that we feel behind or that we feel like we can't keep up with all the possibilities. I think it's a good balance cuz you also keep us informed of the new things and that's important that we're we're tracking the trends, but we're also Yeah, we got to track the trends, but we also have to make sure that we're not following things that you know, maybe don't work for us or aren't necessary. It's a and it's a tough balance and I think you've

[57:42]done a really good job of it. Naomi, thank you so much for the the good feedback. And yeah, no, PS for phosphatidylserine. I was thinking about it, but yeah. But yeah, no, amazing. Amazing that that you love it. Is there any message that you want to put out there as a as a closing for anyone who either have known the status for a long time or someone who has just discovered the status? APOE4 I would say that there is evidence to support that we are much better at change, at handling difficult news, at dealing with difficult circumstances when we come at it from the place of self-compassion. And that's proven that just like if you have a boss who's like

[58:26]a drill sergeant and demanding things of you and you have no agency and they're just telling you what to do, it gets old really fast and you don't really feel like doing it for them anymore. And even if you're getting paid well, after a while you're like, "I'll do it." But you don't want to. I think that there's always a place for agency even though it might feel like this is imposed upon us.

[58:46]There's a place for agency. We can flip it around and say, "All right, this is what it is for me. This is what I've got." And I now understand it. You know, let's just say you've done a little bit of research and you're kind of like, "I understand it now." Well, do you want to just let your destiny be up to your genes or do you want to have some agency? Well, if you choose to have some agency well, then you can look at the menu. You get to look at the menu. You got a menu of many levers you can pull.

[59:13]You don't have to do them all at once. Just look at the menu and pick and then I would say break it down. Break it down into smaller steps. Don't It's not sleep. It's like, well, what's your issue with sleep? What's going on with you? What would you like to do differently? How would sleep improve your life in other ways? I think there are really great ways to make this our own, to turn it into something that feels like it's personal, it aligns with our values, it makes us feel better in our life, we might be a better friend, we might be a better parent. I don't know, eat that cupcake and you beat yourself up and the next and then maybe

[59:51]that night you don't sleep because you're stressed out over it. The next day you feel more tired and you're now craving carbs, so then you eat more you know, cinnamon rolls and then it's becomes this this kind of snowball effect. Self-compassion has its own snowball effect, which is when you say, "Oh well, I had fun. I enjoyed it. That was great. Kind of wish I didn't do it, but oh well, tomorrow's another day. I'm going to go to sleep tonight feeling like, oh my god, those carbs were yummy." And then I'm going to wake up in the morning and maybe before you go to bed you say, "What's my plan for tomorrow?" so that when I wake up I

[1:00:22]already know what am I having for breakfast? What am I going to do that's going to, you know, be the most loving thing to myself right now. The most loving thing is not going to be to beat myself up. It's going to be to make another choice that I'm going to be proud of and just let that go. Like let let the slips and things like that let them go. They're so unimportant. Damage is done and you're just done. You know, it's not even damage. The the thing has been been done. And um and make sure you enjoy it. Make sure you go, "I missed my workout. Well, did I have fun?"

[1:00:51]Like let yourself have retrospective joy for the thing that you did and then boom, like you just move on. But self-compassion is what I would say to self-compassion when you find out, self-compassion when you're trying to have conver- conversations, self-compassion what you're at the at the restaurant and you had every intention to ask the waiter to do something different or to adapt that meal to you and then you lose your courage, self-compassion for that too.

[1:01:17]It's okay. You have a long life. You have a long life and there's so much living to do and it shouldn't be from being mean to yourself. I know that. I I should I feel like I should take some of this advice for myself as well. Thank you so much, Dev. Where can people find you? I know you have a website, so it's inspireforlife.com where you offer coaching. We'll put that link in in the description in the the YouTube video, but anywhere else where we can find you find your content? Yeah, well, I have a podcast that I've been but it's not related to brain health and um you could find links to that though. It's the

[1:01:52]Elite podcast, but I today just started and have not put any videos out to maybe create my own podcast called APOE4 and beyond. So it's actually out on YouTube. You can subscribe, but there's nothing there yet because I want to collect some videos before I put them out there. But yeah, if you go to my website usually you can find pretty much anything that you want to find about me there. Yeah, amazing. We'll put like all these links in the description. Yeah, thank you again, Dev. It was a great chat.

[1:02:21]>> It's been so fun to talk to you.