72 and Cognitively Sharp: How This APOE4/4 Carrier Beat the Odds | Donna's Story

[0:02]All right, welcome everyone. Today, I am with Donna Dorrance, who is a Phoenix community member. I am very excited to chat with her, and Donna, welcome. I would love you to introduce yourself so people can get to know you a little bit better. >> So, um as Kevin said, I'm Donna Dorrance, and I'm a proud member of the Phoenix community. I have the APOE4, which is a scary gene when you first find out. I found out sort of accidentally when I was asked to give some saliva cuz somebody was doing an Alzheimer's research at Yale, and I thought, "Okay." They never really explained like what they were looking for. And so, you know, I gave them my

[0:43]saliva, and I get this thing, "Oh, can you come meet with us? You know, we want to talk to you cuz, you know, well, all this stuff." So, I actually went there, and that's when I found out what they were looking for. They were looking at the APOE genes as specifically for people with 4443. So, they had me meet online with a geneticist, and she revealed that I was 44. So, it was at first I was just numb, and then of course I went home and went on the internet. I mean, they did explain a little bit about it, you know, cuz they wanted me to try a research drug. And so, anyways, I went home and started researching and

[1:24]started really freaking out. So, that's my story to begin with. >> If we If we go back to that moment, how how long ago was it? >> Almost 10 years ago, a time ago. When when nobody was really talking about stuff or even even hardly knew about it.

[1:45]So, it was it was definitely lots of emotional ups and downs, for sure. And you know, then you start to get scared. >> that that moment 10 years ago, yeah. Sorry, go ahead. >> Yes. No, I thought you're sorry. Say something. Yeah. Uh You know, it it was it was just said the very first one I said the woman told me I was just sort of in shock and they gave you the statistics of what percentage chance that you know, you could develop Alzheimer's disease. So, you know, you look at this back then they were saying I think it was like 60/40 or something for the 4/4s and so you look at that and you're like Oh, this isn't good. Yeah,

[2:24]this this is not a promising outcome for me. And I I'm right now I'm 72. So, at the time I was 62. It was scary. Definitely scary. And there was nothing not much out there. I think that's when Dr. Bredesen started finding out about you know, the Dr. Bredesen was doing stuff, but otherwise nobody was doing much of anything that I knew of at the time. And so it it was scary and I shared with my husband. My husband's one of those people, oh, you're not going to get it. You'll be you're not going to get it if you eat well and do this and that.

[2:56]>> is a good attitude. >> You know, he's more of a forever optimist. It is, but it was it's a good attitude and that he's a very positive person which is I guess good for me cuz if he went down the rabbit hole with me it might not have been good, but still it was like, but yes, I can get it. You know, my at that point was like, but look at I can get it, you know, and that's sort of where I was. And again, that's when the internet became my friend unfortunately, which is sort of scary cuz on the internet at that point in time you know, there wasn't a whole lot of promising

[3:31]things. I mean, you know, on Facebook there's Facebook groups, but you know, there wasn't a whole lot of support out there or anybody like yourself that was actually looking to like, let's let's beat this thing and what's the research and what's going on and what can we get involved in? You know, there was nothing like that unfortunately. So, it sort of a lonely journey for me for a while. I mean, I told my friends. I didn't I you know, and eventually had to tell my kids and so that was sort of hard. And you know, with people you know, are empathetic to you, but they don't understand how what you are going through.

[4:03]>> Yeah. >> How did they react actually when you started telling your kids? Because I'm guessing the decision must have been very hard, right? Because they are also carrying it at least to one of those fours. So, it also impacts them a lot. How and when did you decide to tell them and how did they react?

[4:19]>> I think I told them fairly quickly because I wanted them to know. My My older daughter is a physician's assistant, so she's in health care. And my younger daughter is a was is a bio major. So, she you know, she understood, you know, medicine to some degree and worked in some diagnostic companies. But um you know, they they were like looked it up themselves, but they they are so young that they you know, really they weren't really worried about it, I guess. And like they're they're sort of like my husband as far as well, you know, why you you know, you exercise, you eat healthy, la la la la la, you know, so they were they were a little

[4:54]concerned, but I think they were too young to be I mean, they're not young kids, but they were you know, busy with their own lives. So, they weren't freaking out. My younger daughter eventually did 23andMe. So, she found out she was a 4 3. >> Okay. >> My older daughter did not do 23andMe.

[5:12]So, she we suspect my husband's a 3 2. And so, I suspect just cuz she doesn't have many heart issues and stuff that she may be a 4 2. But that's just a guess, so. >> Mhm. >> But they still you know, even if they don't have it later, you know, they're I know my husband has Yeah, he doesn't have any Alzheimer's genes.

[5:32]>> Yeah. >> So, which is good. But or any that he knows of. But uh yeah, the two is a nice one to have, which unfortunately I don't have. >> Yeah. >> But >> for your kids. >> So, yeah, that's how I ended up That's where I was at that point in time and you know, and I started changing my diet and stuff, trying to, you know, and then at some point I started tried to do keto ketogenic diet, you know, cuz then I did find more stuff on the Bredesen and started trying to eat a kind of keep my inflammation down and my A1C, you know, the whole shebang of uh treatments, you know, that were being suggested as far

[6:05]as your health. And then my kids and my husband both thought I was starting to get a little too concerned, but I think that's if you talk to a lot of people that end up with the 4/4, most people sort of end up going down that road, you know, because you have to you can either you sit back and do nothing or take action and feel like you're doing something to help either prevent it or prolong it.

[6:30]>> If we if we go back to the moment uh that you got tested, do you are you glad to have done that test and have done seen those researchers, or do you feel like you'd rather not know? Because that's usually one of the big question that people ask.

[6:42]>> I think it's for me, and I think most people I think it's important to know. Because if you don't know, you're not going to be aware of what's out there that can help you. You're not going to take steps to, you know, to change your life so that, you know, hopefully you can either as I said, prevent or prolong it. So, I think it's important to know, cuz otherwise, you know, I was eating at the time I was eating what I thought was healthy, but I was eating a lot of carb, you know, processed carbs, like pretzels, because, you know, back in the day it was like stay away from, you know, fats and cholesterol's bad and bad. And

[7:14]so, but then you could eat healthy things, supposedly like whole wheat is healthy, and, you know, things that are like don't have lots of sugar in them, like pretzels were perfect. I could eat a whole bag of them, you know. So, even though I thought I was being healthy, I really wasn't, you know, and so I'm glad I know. Plus, I wouldn't be involved in knowing what's out there for research or to help us. I would just have continued sort of being ignorant and possibly developing it. Like right now, I'm, you know, cognitively intact from taking, you know, the Bredesen the some of the testing I've had, but I don't know if I would be if I hadn't found out and you

[7:56]know, really kept up with what is best for me with my genes. That's That's my you know, but I know some people don't like it. >> like this is a very strong message, right? To to get the >> you're going to know. Well, you know, if if you don't know, I mean, you could you're going to know eventually if you start having cognitive problems. So, better to know when start when you find out as opposed to waiting till you're down the road.

[8:18]>> Exactly. Because the earlier you act on it, the bigger the impact and the more you can at least not necessarily prevent it, but at least like slow it down dramatically. So, getting the the proper like map to navigate all of that is very important, especially as young as possible. Uh but yeah, I love I love your attitude. I love the fact that you took action. You didn't let fear control you. And you decided to dive into it.

[8:42]So, going into the the moment you mentioned that you felt very lonely, it felt very hard because you were on the internet, not a lot of people knew about it. You had probably a few Facebook groups here and there. And we know how they are. They're usually uh with tons of information. It's very overwhelming.

[8:58]How did you start navigating all of that given all the information that you had on the internet? >> Um I I mean, I tried to I mean, back then there wasn't a whole lot of Like now you have so many doctors, you know, neurologists and stuff out there that are doing stuff. So, back then there wasn't a whole lot to navigate. I mean, pretty much Dr. Bredesen was the big person that came out with, you know, all the changes and stuff. And so, it wasn't as overwhelming as it is now, I have to say, because there wasn't much there, you know. You had sort of one program, you know, you had Dr. Bredesen and you

[9:34]had Dr. Gundry who was, you know, doing the research stuff. And um, you know, Gundry was sort of cardiac, but he sort of fit in with uh, you know, cuz he was familiar with the genes and the protocols and stuff. So, that's pretty much where I that road I went down and that was like I said, the ketogenic diet and um, you know, trying to get my sleep in order. But, now there's so much new stuff that some of the stuff I was doing wasn't best for me. But, back then there wasn't a whole lot of options. So, you could go on the internet, but you were just going to find out that APOE4 meant

[10:09]you're going to get Alzheimer's disease. And if you mention it to your doctor, they'd just look at you like you have two heads. And I did seek out functional medicine. I should add that. I sought out a functional medicine doctor, which was helpful. Cuz he was trained he had been trained by Bredesen, so he had um, you know, a wealth of knowledge what supplements were good for you. And he wasn't like one of the doctors, which is something a a lot of people were having problems with they'd go to a functional medicine doctor and they would, you know, sell supplements and give you a list. This guy was actually legit and not just out to make money,

[10:43]but is also very expensive. And that was sort of the road I took, too. It's like going to a functional medicine doctor, you know, feeling that he could sort of guide me. And he did a ton of tests and to get testing. Cuz there were so many things your traditional doctor just test your cholesterol, you know, and your HDL and LDLs and triglycerides, but the functional medicine doctor checked everything, you know, what illnesses I had, you know, what I'm you know, my makeup was, you know, all my nutrition. I mean, he's a whole detailed test. So, I was sort of going down that road in the beginning, also, which was I think you know, it was

[11:18]helpful cuz I felt like I again I was doing something. And >> Yeah, no, no, go ahead. I There's just like some delays, that's why. >> Okay. Yeah, yeah, I thought I mean, cuz I again I was taking action. And and the doctor I saw it really good, you know, and it and it gave me a sort of baseline. And he actually I mean he wrote out, you know, what's what to do and have me meet with a nutritionist and you know, so I was as long as I was involved in doing something mentally I felt I was hopefully going to delay, you know, maybe prevent but at least delay the onset of Alzheimer's disease. So if

[11:52]I didn't have those support systems, you know, because again people your friends and your family they you know, they understand to some degree but they don't understand where your head is at that you're scared. And the functional medicine doctors are trained to understand all that. The ones again the ones that are actually legitimate cuz there are some that aren't unfortunately. So that was definitely helpful.

[12:14]>> Very very interesting that in the end going to a functional medicine doctor was really like the unlock for you having someone who can follow you, guide you a little bit. Do you feel like someone who discovered that the gene today, discovered that they carry a poison for today, given the wealth of information that is online, would they still need to go to that functional doctor? Would you still recommend that?

[12:36]>> If they could find a really good one. Unfortunately, I mean, there are a lot of good ones but they're private pay and you're talking about thousands of dollars, you know, for a functional medicine doctor. Like six, seven hundred dollars an hour. I mean it is outrageous. If they can afford it or you know, I I think it's a good support system. I think they can tweak things, you know, and and order testing and that you might not be able to do yourself. I mean, though I've noticed now there's some more things online where you can Oh, and I can't think of the name of the doctor who said that's doing that but you know, you can for

[13:10]$500 a year you can get all this testing done and then pick other tests. >> Functional health. >> You know, there's more things where you can order your own testing. So I mean, I'm actually lucky now I have a different functional medicine doctor cuz I couldn't afford the other one anymore.

[13:23]It His prices were going up but but I have one that takes Medicare. And right now she's And she specializes in, you know, she was trained by Bredesen, but she also is actually only taking patients that have the 4 4 4 3 gene, which is sort of cool. So, and she's just very She's really good. But, you know, the cost is cuz I have Medicare, I don't have to pay much. Unless I have certain testing done. You know, some of the tests are free. But, I think a functional medicine doctor is is helpful if you have one. But, again, to pay thousands of dollars I think Nowadays, you can go to Ulta Labs and order your

[13:57]own tests and, you know, it's a lot easier to and cheaper to get testing done. And if If people are lucky, they can get their primaries to order testing for them. Like the blood cuz blood work is, you know, if you have insurance, they'll pay you know, pay for blood work. But, again, a lot of pri- um primary doctors just like I mentioned to my primary, she's like, "Oh, well, you know, those doctors are just, you know, functional medicine. It's just to make money off of pills." So, most primaries are not so cooperative. But, I see nowadays there's more that are becoming cooperative from looking, you know, on the websites and stuff.

[14:36]But, I think it's helpful. I think now though, like with your site, it's helpful because we could download all our information and, you know, be able to maybe not need somebody. >> Yeah, that's that's what we we try to do in the end. Like provide enough information so the patients are informed and because I I think as you mentioned, I think when you see a lot of doctors today and that that happened to me actually. When I went to see neurologists and and physicians, they all told me to come back when I would get symptoms, right? When I would be like 65 or 70, when I would get the beginning of symptoms and to only come

[15:10]back then. And they wouldn't give any advice. So, that was a terrible. And as you mentioned, like functional medicine doctors are very expensive. They're also very localized in the US. So, I know we have a a a of members that are outside of the US. you don't have that many functional medicine doctors outside of the US somehow. So, it's quite difficult and and what we try to do is provide enough information that when you bring that information to your doctor, then they can get informed. At least the good ones, they get information and then they get help like uh how to get the test and help you navigate that um because it's still very important to have a doctor

[15:42]inside the loop, right? To guide you. If we move on now to what you're currently doing, like your current intervention stacks, like walk us through what you're doing in terms of supplements. I know you're doing uh the red light therapy. But, what else are you doing? >> So, well, I I actually recently used AI, which is helpful, to go through some uh my supplements cuz sometimes they redundant, you know, supplements are expensive and sometimes you can overdo it. So, I actually was really helpful just to, you know, kind of consolidate my supplements and just be able to not be redundant cuz it's easy There's so And that's the part That's one of the hard things out there is there are so

[16:22]many supplements. I mean, they This is going to help and that's going to help and you do get overwhelmed with it. So, I have finally paired down to what the research says with supplements that can work. And also, your website also has where they sort of let you know what the supplements can do or, you know, it's looks at what's better for you.

[16:42]So, I take I take um something called MitoQ. It's a mitochondrial supplement cuz with uh 44 gene, uh mitochondria, especially cuz I have genetic testing, mitochondria can be, you know, not work as well with somebody with the gene. I take curcumin, which is an anti-inflammatory, which I I just think curcumin is magic cuz I was having word finding problems and number years ago, um started taking curcumin and boom, gone. You know, so, it it's a And it has a lot of strong research behind it. I take N-acetylcysteine. It's supposed to be helpful for mitochondria. What else do I take? I take I'm taking What do I think I'm taking now? I take Oh, I take

[17:22]hormones, hormone replacement therapy, which I've been on for many years now, which That's a That's one of those iffy things at my age, but I've chosen to stay on it cuz it does have a lot of I think it has benefit. Again, there's studies that say it may make things worse. It's sort of one of That's a personal choice. I take melatonin, just a little bit at night, and I take magnesium at glycinate at night. And these are more to help with sleep. I take Let's see what else.

[17:50]That's That's all I take at night, you know, and my progesterone, which is part of the HRT. I'm just starting sulfury. I don't know if this I say right, sulfurine. Like it's made out of broccoli. That's supposed to be helpful. What else? I've tried other things. I do need choline, according to my genetics testing, but so but we can only, you know, it's not recommended eating too many eggs. So I eat an egg a day, but I also, instead of taking a supplement, I tried citicoline, and it just didn't give me insomnia. But I do get I eat caviar every day cuz omega-3s So that A lot of times they recommend omega-3 supplements, but I eat like a lot of

[18:31]fish. I eat a lot of salmon, you know, a sardines, and I use caviar as my omega-3. And it's very high in DHA. >> Okay. Interesting. >> So that's how I get my choline, instead of a supplement. Um though it's not cheap, but you know, it's I believe maybe it's working. Who knows? You know, that's the thing. It's hard to know when you're taking a bunch of things what's really driving Huh? I love it. I I like the salmon roe. I know some people it's If you it could be gross if you don't like it.

[19:04]>> [clears throat] >> But so yeah, so that's pretty much what I'm taking. I'm trying to think if I'm missing anything. But so I'm not taking a lot right Oh, and I Oh, I should say I take pendulum is it's called Akkermansia. It's a pro probiotic. And it's supposed to help with blood sugars.

[19:24]It's called It's a company that came out with this and they're I think they're from Australia. But anyways, it's a company that came out with a probiotic that's supposed to help blood sugars. And cuz my mine recently started itching up where I into the pre-diabetes range. So, I have to be careful. And I don't know again, you know, you have to you combine with diet and taking it it's not hurting me and probiotics are good anyways. So, so I think that's all I'm taking for right now. And which is you know, creatine.

[19:52]>> Okay. Creatine. But it's super interesting because you said that you reduced your stack because of AI and you mentioned at least 20 different supplements here. How many supplements did you have at the beginning before reducing your stack? >> I was probably taking about I don't know three or four more maybe. Like I was taking on >> Okay.

[20:10]>> liposomal glutathione, but it was sort of redundant, you know, with others. I'm trying to think what else there is. I backed off a little bit on my melatonin. So, I'm trying to think what else I've you know, I've tried so many different things over there. L-theanine, but I realized that it wasn't just doing anything for me. So, stopped that. I and I do take actually I take vitamins like zinc and thiamine just cuz of my what my genes said that I needed, but uh that I'm at risk to have problems with it. But those are just like vitaminy things. I see I I was taking a multivitamin at one point. I've taken so much stuff through time to try things

[20:45]and just realized some things didn't work and then cycle with AI it just sort of got rid of some of the extra mitochondrial stuff that I wasn't overdoing it with it and inflammatory stuff that you know, was redundant. >> How do you decide what to keep, what to take, what to try and walk us through that this like a rational when you're deciding about the supplement that you hear about?

[21:06]>> Well, how do I say Well, I you know, even before AI, I would I would just feel something would make me feel weird or something. Or if anything caused insomnia, it was out cuz I have trouble with sleeping, which is common with APOE4/4, though I'm doing better.

[21:20]But, um so but I have my bad nights. But, so anything that caused insomnia, it was out the door, you know, just gone. Oh, and I take a statin, too. I am taking a statin. I have been for years, you know, cuz I have had high cholesterol since I was a child. So, and that's controversial these days. There's a lot of And I may ask him to switch to a different version, you know, medication just um as opposed to the one I'm taking, but you know, it Trying to decide, you know, again, I would try different, you know, things. Some things like they mentioned lithium orotate that's supposed to be good for you. And for me, it caused insomnia. So, that was

[21:53]out the door, you know. That was just not going to happen because sleep is so important. So, I had, you know, sort of give that up. And it's hard. And I finally added up how much everything costs that I'm taking. Cuz I do I am lucky I have a Fullscript.

[22:09]I'm sure you're familiar with Fullscript. It's a prescription company that Well, that's prescription. It's for medications. I mean, it's You don't need a prescription for it. And they give they give discounts. And I was able to through this somebody that a coach person that I had connected with at one point gets a 35% discount, and she passes it on to her clients. So, I am able to get 35% off anything I get from them. But, when I added up how much it's I'm still probably spending and that includes my hormones and everything, too. Probably about Oh, and I take thyroid medicine. I got to forget that. I I I hate to be on thyroid medicine cuz I never had a problem till

[22:49]not long ago. Probably about well over $400 a month, which is a lot of money when you think about it. And that's how I feel. I mean, luckily, you know, my husband's still working. I'm retired. Um but I you know, we're what It's It's an expensive journey. It's not a cheap journey. And you know, and it's not going to It's not a journey that ends, you know. I mean, it ends, but it's not a journey that you can just say, "Okay, I'm going to take a break for 3 or 4 months, you know."

[23:17]>> Yeah. >> Sort of a and permanent journey for now. There's just so much out there, you know. It It is overwhelming. Very overwhelming. >> Everything that you mentioned, I found the exact same problem in the end. Like, how do you keep a like a supplement? How do you know which one works, which one doesn't? Especially when you don't have a clear blood biomarker, right? You You were talking about, let's say, anything for inflammation, you have a clear biomarker for that. So, it's very easy to know if it works or not if you're changing one on the other. But, we were always like talking about omega-3 and if it reaches the brain or not. Very hard

[23:50]to know, almost impossible to know if it reaches the brain because whatever is in your blood does not represent what happens in your brain. So, that's usually super tricky. The solution that we have in the end and that that we're really seeing like now is basically our app, the Phenix app with the supplements that you can track inside. And on top of that, you can put tags. For example, you mentioned that lithium gives you insomnia. Well, the good thing is if you were not sure that it was lithium, we would be able to track that when you're taking lithium, your sleeping score is dropping. Then, we can correlate it back. And at the same time, at the

[24:26]community level, we'll be able to see that, let's say, 20% of all our members who are taking lithium have sleep issues and we can flag that side effects very easily. And so, we can warn people about it and they can look out for that. I think that's extremely important to have like this type of tagging and knowing in an objective way if something is uh changing something or not because the issue of trying to remember in the past is that you might not completely remember what happened the past month and really correlate. you just have like these little incidents and it's not a very objective way of measuring it. So, I I believe that's a good way of solving

[25:04]it. At least that's the way that is solving it for me. >> No. No, that makes a lot of sense cuz sometimes there's other things like somebody, you know, you might have eaten dinner too late, so you didn't sleep well or, you know, all the other things that can interfere. You know, you might have had a certain food that's not good to have later in the day cuz then it keeps you up, you know. Which is And And that's a whole you know, other thing is like with uh having these genes and stuff, we're more sensitive to lots of different foods or timing of foods or how, you know, things interact with our bodies. I I you know,

[25:38]I think we're just our, you know, wired sensitivity to certain foods that can cause inflammation. Well, my husband can eat anything with his good genes and he doesn't have any signs of inflammation or any, you know, heart problems, where we're because we're at war predisposed heart issues. I mean, that's a whole big part of this is uh we're not It's not just the Alzheimer's risk, but also the heart disease risk. And so, that's a whole addition that we have to deal with.

[26:09]>> Make sure that, you know, we're keeping those markers down cuz keeping the heart healthy keeps the brain healthy and whatever, you know, it's a it's it's not They're not separate. You know, they're combined. >> Yeah. I mean, what what you touched upon right before is very important. right?

[26:25]You want to be able to isolate it. Isolating that in your example that lithium is impacting your sleep and it's not because you ate uh late. So, we have like all these different tags that people can add like, "Okay, I drank wine before sleeping or I had a late dinner."

[26:41]and so on. So, then we can correlate the effect that it has on sleep. I I know it takes some efforts to put in everything and to log in everything, but then at least you have a clear view and a map of what you are doing and how it impacts the thing that matters, whether it's your inflammation, your sleep, your stress levels, and everything. I I was curious to know about how you found about the FINGERS community, and I remember in your application when you joined us that you mentioned that you were hoping for support and education in the community, and I I was curious to know about how it helped you today.

[27:15]>> Oh, it's a huge help. My goodness. First of all, I would just I mean how did it help? In many ways. First of all, the support, you know, as somebody carrying an APOE4/4, um it helps to, you know, connect with other people that are, you know, having the same issues or feeling the same way.

[27:36]It just you feel like you're not alone with that. Also, all the information that is on your site is just phenomenal. And like you're looking at the latest research and trying to connect us to the latest research and letting us know, you know, some of the things, you know, research out there with like what's working or what's not working or what's working for diet or what's not working for diet or what's, you know, what is going to help possibly again prevent or pro you know, at least prolong getting Alzheimer's disease. And there's just such a wealth of but and your information is legitimate cuz there's a lot of information out there. People have all kinds of weird websites.

[28:18]It's not legitimate, you know. It's quacky and you know, your stuff is and and you're constantly connecting with companies to try to help us and get us involved in research like the helmet, you know, that I and I was in the GRONK study and, you know, having the helmet is for me has been helpful, but you know, just connecting us with all those and these companies that really want to work with us, you know, even and you still work on more stuff, the new Al- and drugs that may be coming out. And also being able to and your the app that you've created, especially now you're you're still perfecting it, but I think that's going to be amazing. I mean,

[28:59]already you have the website where we can put in what, you know, how we feel every day and and track drugs and stuff like that, but it's just amazing what you're putting together. I mean, it's going to be like our own AI and you have a AI on there sort of, you know, like those little sage and whatever, but it's just going to be it's it's going to seems like it's going to have everything in one place. And also like recently you had a list of all the blood markers that are good for us, you know, and and that's really helpful too because you get your blood work done and you think you're fine, you know, and then you say,

[29:32]"Whoops, it's got to be better than that." And that's important. I mean, if I dragged that out and I'm trying to compare it to my recent blood work, you know, and then also you know what to test for. Like I recently added some tests that I ordered from Ulta Labs so that I can see, you know, some of the other markers that I haven't tested before. So, I think your site is going to be just all comprehensive of everything we need, you know, how you know, how to how to how to build a program and and a specific one for us.

[30:02]That's the key. You know, like you have a program out there and there's everybody all these doctors everybody's got programs, you know, all these people have podcasts, they have programs and protocols, but what works for one person does not work for another person. So, we're building a protocol with your Phoenix apps on something that's going to work for us, you know, it's not going to be something that just follows protocol because I have tried I tried ketogenic. Found out I'm a lean mass responder, which means that my cholesterol my LDL that stuff go my bad heart stuff goes up if I try ketogenic and I don't sleep, you know, so and that's just me. Some people, you know,

[30:41]do ketogenic and they're fine. So, having something an app that is building something personal that's going to work for you. And to find out what works for you, like you said with the supplements, is so important, you know, and it's comprehensive. It's like you don't have to go to five different places to, you know, try to get the information, which is nice.

[31:00]>> I love that. Yeah. Well, thank you Dana for for this. I I think that that's really key, right? To to be able to have something that is personalized to you, to your genes, to your habits, to your environment, um and also learning from people who are similar to you, because that that's really key. I realized that if you were to try to experiment and really isolate each intervention one by one, and it takes you, let's say, two months or three months to validate something. You mentioned that you are in the new that we have to isolate it for 3 months, not change much. But, if you do that and you are trying on 20 different

[31:38]interventions, it takes you decades to validate it on your own. So, the really big vision that I have for Phenix is to be able to match people together based on their genetics, environment, habits, and to kind of crowd-source these type of experiments. So, you don't need to do all the experiments yourself. Everyone does a little bit, and then you learn from people who are similar to you, so it increases your chance of it working for you. Because what works for people similar to you has a higher chance to work for you as well. And that's kind of where we are going with Phenix. We need much more many, many more members, but we're getting there. Is there something

[32:16]that you have learned on uh the forum, on the community from another member that stuck with you and that improved your interventions or your life? >> Well, I mean, I there's just so many people that I, you know, will interact with here and there and stuff, but I can't think anybody specific at this point in time. Honestly, you know, I really connected with anybody like personally with anybody, but I think it's just in general. Add research like that they found, you know, that they've seen, and people will just add how they're feeling. How like recently and I I don't remember names of people on the unfortunately on the site, but there was somebody that talked about they were

[32:56]frustrated. They're feeling overwhelmed with all the different interventions. And I definitely connected with that cuz they when that when you know, when that person, you know, commented on how they were feeling overwhelmed, I was sort of feeling overwhelmed myself to that point with you know, where should I be going now?

[33:14]So, I I definitely related to that person's frustration because we want to try everything, you know? And it's it's like, well, what do we try? And cuz it some some of them cost a lot a decent amount of money. So, it's like it doesn't cost money if you can try stuff, but when you have to pay money, it's it starts it does start getting you start feeling frustrated and overwhelmed. Um, but then, you know, you realize that you just pick what you think's going to work for you, and you know, and like you said, I think with the app, you're going to see what works for other people, and then we'll know, you know, what might be

[33:49]good for us. But, yeah, I think that person I can't think of her name, but um, that sort of resonated with me as far as just feel, you know, cuz that's the hard thing. You'll feel something, but you don't have anybody to talk to about. I can tell my husband I'm frustrated, but he's like, yeah, that's nice. But, as far as um, you know, somebody that's in the same situation, you know, it's it's huge, you know, and and you know, everybody on the everybody in the we're all the same boat.

[34:20]>> Yeah, exactly. There's this delay, but we're saying the same thing. I love that. If someone just got the 44 result today, what would you tell them? >> Ooh, that's Let me think. That's a tough one. Well, at first I obviously would be hard to be supportive and I would tell them that well, it depends if they're young, you know, there's a big difference too what age you're at. So if it's a young person, I would say you're going to be fine because by the time you get older and if you if you, you know, follow a healthy diet and exercise and do all those, you know, the basic things that you're going to be fine because there's

[34:54]so much research out there that and they're they're getting away from the traditional less removable amyloid, you know, they're going to I think they're going to be fine. I really do. So talking to somebody that's older, I would probably say don't freak out, you know, and give them my perspective how I think it's good to know because now there's a lot of more support systems out there and especially obviously I would tell them about your your website and there's a lot more support systems out there and that they're working on new things and there's still going to be things for us to try. Different types of, you know, research is coming out and that, you know, as long as we again take

[35:32]care of ourselves. I mean, that to help, you know, let them know that there are protocols for them number one is the diet, exercise, certain supplements and sleep. I mean, all the the basics, you know, so I would share that with them and just try to reassure them that, you know, they they they have control over this. I mean, I I really think so because again I technically and then I do have some tau in my brain, you know, but um my but my other markers for the brain that they tested were fine, but that I do think that everything that I've been doing if I wasn't I don't think I would made it to 72 with

[36:10]my cognition intact. So that there is things that they could do to, you know, help at least prolong it, you know, maybe prevent it, but at least prolong it. Because I again it depends on the you know, young people they're going to be fine. Like you're young. You guys have you know more more time to you know Cuz I was listening to those something recently they said you know within 10 years they really think that they're going to be able to you know do stuff with those gene editing there's all kinds of drugs that they're trying to you know do There's vaccines there's you know Just a lot of stuff out there That I think is going to be successful

[36:52]unfortunately we were held back By the fact that everybody was shooting at let's get rid of amyloid you know and they didn't really look at other interventions. >> I mean I like your your your view on the future I like how optimistic you are and I I love the fact that you are super sharp at 72 and it definitely works right the intervention that you've done because I after talking with you like for for this one hour I feel like your potential is is really good what what would you say to someone who is thinking I'm maybe too old to start it's already too late for me.

[37:23]>> I don't think it's ever too late. I mean You know if you find the right I think somebody that Is worried that it's Too late they really need to hook up with a doctor you know like a functional medicine doctor at least initially you know maybe even just a short time to sort of help them guide them and you know do testing on them because you really you know you don't even know what you you could be having cognitive issues and could be a B12 def deficiency Or you know or anything you could be anemic or there's all so many things you could have Some inflammation in your body that you know can be taken care of so it's

[38:00]never too late and it's never definitely getting you know seeing somebody that can unless they can figure out the test themselves and stuff but you know initially I think they need someone to they would need someone to guide them you know and to help them just get that baseline testing because again you don't know you know some people are exposed to mold I mean that and that's that's a big thing. You know, there's just so much that you don't know what's going on in your body that you might think you're, you know, too old and you're not feeling right, but, you know, get a baseline at least and then work from there because there's always probably something you

[38:37]can tweak, you know. I mean, if you're obviously if you're like stage two or three Alzheimer's, it's a different story, but if you're mild cognitive, you know, it looks like there's a lot of mild cognitive deficits of that is reversible But definitely I don't think you're ever too old. You know, I I've There's I did a nutrition coaching thing and it was a nutrition through the Bredesen program, but there was a lot of people on there that were just starting out and they were like in their 80s, you know, as far as you know, trying to, you know, do stuff for themselves and noticing a difference. So, you know, you're never too old for sure. There's never too

[39:14]late, I don't think. The doctor will tell you are, you know, you talk to your primary and they're going to tell you, "Oh, nothing we can do again." >> Yeah. Definitely. I think someone like not to lose hope even though the interventions they work to earlier you start, there's always something that you can do that is not drastically changing your life, but will like improve it even when you are I've seen a lot of results.

[39:35]We've seen like members within the Phoenix community who managed to reduce their P tau, who managed to reduce their amyloid and and actually were in MCI and now started to become like way better, right? There's like this member who is taking care of her husband that become way way way more clear and present compared to before. So, I I really believe that there is something that you can do whatever stage you are. Of course, as you mentioned, when you're already advanced in Alzheimer's, it's difficult, but MCI definitely there are things to do even today. I I think we're going to close this soon. Is there anything that you want to talk about or that I didn't ask about?

[40:14]>> Um trying to think. I think we pretty much covered everything that >> Oh, anything that you want to say to the community Anything that you want to say directly to the community? >> Uh, you know, I think anybody that is on the fence or you know, thinking of joining the Phoenix community, I think it's so valuable.

[40:32]Again, it's not like the Facebook groups, you know, nothing against them, but it's more of a proactive type of program. Um, I think that you're doing amazing. I don't know how you do it all, but anyways, you're doing an amazing job. I think it's for me it's been extremely helpful. It's like, you know, I I found my my people, kind of thing.

[40:51]But, it you know, it gives me hope because I realize that there are people that are getting benefit and that can are improving and then also keeps me motivated to keep on doing what I'm doing. There are times, every once in a while you're like, I'm just going to sit down with a, you know, chocolate candy bar, eat the whole thing and just give up, you know, but you realize that, you know, there's this support behind you.

[41:17]So, and definitely, you know, all the stuff you're doing with research, you know, connecting with researchers and stuff, but yeah, I I I I think you know, I mean, again, you have two choices, you either, you know, are active and have a positive attitude or you just give up.